Posted on Aug 28, 2015
Is it authorized to rate somebody the same rank as you for an OER?
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I am in a situation in which I am supposed to rate a fellow O-3 on their OER. I am not necessarily in a position in that person's direct chain but per my Bn CDR's guidance, he prefers that I rate this person. Is this authorized? In what manual can I find guidance?
OER
Officer
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 50
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Your second sentence is a red flag. Per new guidance issued about two years ago with the EES, the Rater must be someone who is in that person's chain of command or has intimate knowledge of the duties that person performs. Rater and SR's can no longer move around who they rate or don't rate in order to get a better Rater/ SR profile. This is especially important with the new EES system since Raters now have a profile.
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CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner
Sir, this has absolutely nothing to do with the question posted, but does Fort Wadsworth still exist? I attended AIT there in 1978 when it was home to the Chaplain Center and School. I heard it was now either a dump or a prison of some sort. What is its status? Thank you!
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BG (Join to see)
CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner - Neither dump nor prison, but some would disagree with me ;). It has a sizable Coast Guard station and several Army Reserve units. You should come by and visit sometime.
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CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner
BG (Join to see) - Sir, I certainly will! I loved my time there and the Fort's history was fascinating! I always wanted to share it with my wife--who was my girlfriend when I was there. The next time we are in NY!
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Reference is AR 623-3, Chapter 2.
Yes sir, you may rate the officer, so long as you are senior in TIG. The S/R must be an LTC or higher.
Yes sir, you may rate the officer, so long as you are senior in TIG. The S/R must be an LTC or higher.
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LTC (Join to see)
Perhaps the reg has changes since then, but in 1973, I had a sr. rater who was a Major.
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MAJ (Join to see)
LTC Joseph Gross - I been in this position. As a CPT in company command I rated 4 other CPTs. I had a MAJ that worked for me so that one I couldnt do and it was given to the next higher echelon and it was done by a COL.
However this was not only in command. As the brigade S6 I have another officer under me and he was rated by me.
However this was not only in command. As the brigade S6 I have another officer under me and he was rated by me.
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COL (Join to see)
Must be senior by time in grade. Only exception is a junior TIG that is in an officially recognized command position.
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MAJ Derrick J.
LTC Joseph Gross - having been a commander in both regular and HQ company commands, I had a role in the evals (as a captain) and I did rate a major who had been tagged for a positive drug test. But in that case I was the only one familiar with that officers duties and performance (he was quartermaster for the brigade).
It's important to note that we did not have a Brigade XO, so in practice I was both XO and HQ commander. There was nothing official about it, it all fell into place because I stepped up to fill the XO role where I could concerning HQ staff. And I had other majors and LTCs in all the S-level sections.
Through a combination of finess and delicate maneuvering using my command status and my personal command presence, I pulled it all off and made the HQ a model for the rest of the Division.
I also had to initiate UCMJ actions against that major and give my recommendations as to the disposition of that officer and his retirement. But that's also a commanders responsibility no matter what.
So the BN Commander (a colonel) directed me to complete both those items, after which he took them the rest of the way.
But I do not recall rating any other officers senior to me, except that one major who was being processed out, ultimately. This was a special circumstance so that's how it all fell into place.
It's important to note that we did not have a Brigade XO, so in practice I was both XO and HQ commander. There was nothing official about it, it all fell into place because I stepped up to fill the XO role where I could concerning HQ staff. And I had other majors and LTCs in all the S-level sections.
Through a combination of finess and delicate maneuvering using my command status and my personal command presence, I pulled it all off and made the HQ a model for the rest of the Division.
I also had to initiate UCMJ actions against that major and give my recommendations as to the disposition of that officer and his retirement. But that's also a commanders responsibility no matter what.
So the BN Commander (a colonel) directed me to complete both those items, after which he took them the rest of the way.
But I do not recall rating any other officers senior to me, except that one major who was being processed out, ultimately. This was a special circumstance so that's how it all fell into place.
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Per AR 623-3 the rater can be of the same rank as the rated Soldier as long as they outrank them by date of rank. However, if you are not in the Soldier's supervisory chain, you should not be rating them, their supervisor should
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CPT, I would refer to your organization's official OER rating scheme. Check with the BN S-1 if you can't locate it. An official OER rating scheme is a requirement not an option. Second, refer to DA Pam 623-3 and AR 623-3. Rating schemes are normally done IAW with position and date of rank and other unique circumstances. For example, DA civilians can also rate officers. When in doubt, communicate your concerns to your commander or higher if necessary.
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LTC Welford Roberts
Not only can DA Civilians rate officers, but civilians from other agencies. When I was on active duty and an O$, I was detailed to the USEPA for several years and rated by an employee of that agency, but senior rated by a higher ranking military officer.
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The Reg is AR 623-3. I'd also recommend looking at DA PAM 623-3 for additional information. By regulation, you can rate someone of the same rank as long as you are senior by date of rank. The exception is for commanders who can rate someone of the same rank regardless of date of rank.
You might also want to look in the reg for the section that talks about the intent of determining the rating chain. The rater is intended to be that person who is most directly the immediate supervisor of the rated officer (i.e., the person who give the rated officer the majority of his/her daily supervision).
Hope this helps/
You might also want to look in the reg for the section that talks about the intent of determining the rating chain. The rater is intended to be that person who is most directly the immediate supervisor of the rated officer (i.e., the person who give the rated officer the majority of his/her daily supervision).
Hope this helps/
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Please make sure you are actually supervising (officially -- as in you signed papers saying so) the concerned person for at least the minimum time before you write..... Get good advice from the S-1 on the process and do the right thing.
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I concur with the others, AR 623-3 para 2-5.a. provides for seniority by date of rank to be sufficient for rating like-graded officers. AR 623-3 para 2-3 also says that the Bde CDR must approve a rating scheme for a Bn HQs. However, like mentioned above, your second sentence is a red flag. Are you being asked to rate another CPT just in time to do the OER? Or are you being told that you're going to begin supervising/rating the individual? If so, then there may be an implied task that you need to assess how to interact with the other captain in order to supervise him properly. It's an awkward position for a younger officer, but it's not uncommon. If your situation is the ladder, then I suggest you ask your commander for some guidance on how to pull this other individual in so you can better meet the requirements of being a direct supervisor.
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Sir, are you slotted to be this other Officers official rater? If not, then you probably should be the one rating them.
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You should have an S1 to consult. There are specified times when positional authority allows an officer to rate another officer of similar rank. These questions are what keeps the S1 employed.
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COL John Hudson
Yes, Jesse. Then the S1 comes to see me, as If I didn't have enough work already!! LOL! JCH Col, IG (Ret)
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