Posted on Feb 18, 2016
Is it common for a person with 17 years in the military to not have a personal award?
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I did 8 years active duty in the Marines as a 0311 with 3 combat deployments. I am currently serving in the National Guard as a cook (E-7) and have 3 years till my 20. I have never had a bad fit rep or NCOER and my PT scores are high 280-300. I have never received a personal award, or letter of recommendation. I just don’t want to leave the military with a bitterness in my mouth thinking my years of service were not good enough.
After following this post, I have gathered some interesting opinions. 1. The awards system is "jacked up" 2. I should speak up and let my command know and ask how I can stand out.(the most constructive answer) 3. People get awards based on rank, mos, duty, unit, timing, and mission. (not always based on personal effort) 4. Don't worry once you retire they don't mean anything anyway. (which I don't believe) 5. Not all believe they deserved an award even if one was given, some believe they deserved more than what they got, then you have the haves telling the have nots why they are not worthy.
Thank you all for the advice and service.
Best,
Jason Sakowski
After following this post, I have gathered some interesting opinions. 1. The awards system is "jacked up" 2. I should speak up and let my command know and ask how I can stand out.(the most constructive answer) 3. People get awards based on rank, mos, duty, unit, timing, and mission. (not always based on personal effort) 4. Don't worry once you retire they don't mean anything anyway. (which I don't believe) 5. Not all believe they deserved an award even if one was given, some believe they deserved more than what they got, then you have the haves telling the have nots why they are not worthy.
Thank you all for the advice and service.
Best,
Jason Sakowski
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 49
I've seen this happen, and sometimes those service members have much higher awards but not a NAM/AAM. I think it's because unfortunately awards are often associated with rank (which I highly oppose, but it's the reality). Therefore once you make it to a certain level, people will not look to give you an AAM. For example, a Sergeant Major is much less likely to receive an AAM than a Specialist in my experience.
If you make it past your junior years without an AAM/NAM, most leaders may assume you already have it, and wouldn't think of awarding it to you. They may notice it at a ball or a time when you wear a formal event, but their mind is often not on professional development at that time. I believe they would look to remedy it however if they knew about this gap when they were in the right mindset. Then again, who's going to be the guy to go to his unit leader and say "you know, I've never received this award. Can I have one?" That's obviously a no-go for many reasons.
My suggestion would be to speak with your Sergeant Major and have a conversation like this:
"As you know, I did 8 years of active duty with 3 combat deployments and have a total of 17 years. I've been looking back at my career, and I've never had a bad FITREP/NCOER, which is something I'm very proud of. As I look at my next few years before retirement, I want to make sure I give the military everything I can give. As I've never even received an AAM during my service, so I'm concerned that perhaps there is more I can do. How can I approach the next few years to make sure I perform at my full potential?"
If you make it past your junior years without an AAM/NAM, most leaders may assume you already have it, and wouldn't think of awarding it to you. They may notice it at a ball or a time when you wear a formal event, but their mind is often not on professional development at that time. I believe they would look to remedy it however if they knew about this gap when they were in the right mindset. Then again, who's going to be the guy to go to his unit leader and say "you know, I've never received this award. Can I have one?" That's obviously a no-go for many reasons.
My suggestion would be to speak with your Sergeant Major and have a conversation like this:
"As you know, I did 8 years of active duty with 3 combat deployments and have a total of 17 years. I've been looking back at my career, and I've never had a bad FITREP/NCOER, which is something I'm very proud of. As I look at my next few years before retirement, I want to make sure I give the military everything I can give. As I've never even received an AAM during my service, so I'm concerned that perhaps there is more I can do. How can I approach the next few years to make sure I perform at my full potential?"
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CPL (Join to see)
I'm just a PFC but I might have another, round-a-bout way. Do you have a really close friend that's in a different unit that's under the same chain of command? For example: if you are 1 PLT, do you have a friend in 2 PLT?? Both units report to the same senior enlisted staff. You could go to that friend and have him suggest it. Then your friend could go to them and say "Hey, Did you know SSG Sakowski hasn't ever gotten a AAM? It's weird how some people fall through the cracks..." Or something to that effect. I know I've petitioned senior enlisted for awards for others before. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it doesn't come across as "Hey, I need this..."
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3 combat deployments and no personal award?!?!? I know the Marines are a bit more austere in their philosophy when it comes to giving awards, but that is taking it to the extreme IMHO.
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GySgt Bill Smith
GySgt John Olson - I can say there was no "lack of action" I was the forward force of invading Iraq 2003, Korangal Valley, Afg 2005 and Hadiatha Iraq 2006. Plenty of "Action" to go around. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1656736/posts
Lieutenant Risks Life to Save Another in Iraq
Can't imagine any of our illustious senators or congressmen/women doing such a feat. They'd cut and run. Saluting U.S. Marine 1st Lt. Rick Posselt and Cpl. Michael Estrella.
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LTC Paul Labrador
GySgt John Olson - just because you didn't shoot at anything doesn't mean you didn't do your job and do it well. It means you were prepared to, but just never got the opportunity.....which is what service awards are meant to recognize: doing a good job and getting the mission done. Now the example you used of the Lcpl who did everything wrong, he is perfect example of someone who didn't do his job well.
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Sgt Ruth Ickert
Capt Jeff S. - We'll said "Do your best-not for others to see, but for yourself." Definitely defining
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
GySgt John Olson - Well put. When I served in a joint assignment I was always amazed at how austere the Marines were compared to all other services when It came to giving out awards. But that's what makes a Marine a Marine.
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I was a GySgt before I got my first NAM. Not for nothing though, the Combat Action Ribbon you're wearing is a personal award, and personal awards just make service/dress uniforms more expensive. Ribbons alone run me almost $50.00........I miss being a LCpl with only a Sea Service Deployment Ribbon.
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GySgt Bill Smith
Would you say you did not receive your first award until GySgt because of your own lack of actions or lack in your leaders/ units actions? Hence do you believe credit was not given when credit was due.
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GySgt (Join to see)
Personally I don't think I should have gotten that NAM in the first place, I was just doing the job I was assigned. Sure it was a lot of work, and holding a billet two pay grades above mine, but it was the billet I was assigned and even though I was successful I still struggled at first. I was a FAST Company Operations Chief, as a SSgt. Basically responsible for training, readiness and deploying 8 FAST platoons(approx. 400 Marines). They also tacked on the time I spent as a FAST platoon sergeant, forming and training my own platoon, deploying to FASTEUR and forward deploying from there in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. All that said, I was still just living up to my billet description.
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Cpl Elizabeth Koeneman
I also was in a position where I had to fill a billet I was technically not the right rank for. I got shoved in as platoon Sgt as a LCpl. I did it because there was no one else. Well, there was, but I was next senior after our SSgt because all the NCO's in the shop got transferred back stateside. Plus, since I was pregnant, SSgt didn't feel comfortable with me soldering (which was the bulk of the work we had in the shop) even with a mask and gloves due to lead so he felt I was better employed with the paperwork. Didn't get an award, didn't expect one. I just did what needed to be done. Thought I was going to get busted down at one point at our company's weekly plt Sgt meeting because one of the shop's usual guy was on leave so they sent a different Sgt and he started talking down to me because he complained about a policy the company had that a representative from the maintenance shop had to inspect 1/3 of every shop's gear each month so all the gear was checked each quarter to make sure everything was accounted for and anything that should be in maintenance was. I pointed out it was his shop's screw up that caused the policy to be put in place (one of their Cpl's had packed nothing but damaged 26 pair cables for UFL) and he told me to shut up and let the grown ups talk. I have a bit of a temper, plus pregnancy hormones, so I went off on him right in front of 1st Sgt. 1st Sgt just laughed and told him "she's right, you know."
What did piss me off about awards, though, was when the Cpl mentioned above got a freaking NAM for inducting all of those cables she mistakenly packed into maintenance. Over 11 years later and it still pisses me off that she got a NAM for incompetence.
What did piss me off about awards, though, was when the Cpl mentioned above got a freaking NAM for inducting all of those cables she mistakenly packed into maintenance. Over 11 years later and it still pisses me off that she got a NAM for incompetence.
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I'm pretty sure there's a Terminal Lance comic about this. Anyways, don't think that way at all. You've seen combat, and as such have a CAR; most of the Marine Corps, to include the newest Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps, will never see that ribbon. Don't worry about what's on your chest and know, unquestionably, that you've done more than your fair share for this country than most.
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GySgt Bill Smith
Hahah the funny thing is Maximilian Uriarte, the creator of Terminal Lance was in my company. 3/3 I co.
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LTC Yinon Weiss gave you some good advice. Another thought. Has your unit had a ball or holiday social where ASUs/evening mess are worn in recent history? If one is coming, go to it. Make sure you hit the receiving line. Ensure you introduce yourself to the BC and CSM. If they are light on awards, that may be telling. One of them will notice. It may spur the requisite conversation with your supervisory chain.
GySgt Bill Smith have you tried competing in a Connelly Food Service Competition? That could produce an opportunity to train/recognize your soldiers and you at the same time.
That is how I ended up (unbeknownst to me at the time) getting my first AAM. My Squadron Commander saw me at Thanksgiving, looked at the XO and asked her why I didn't have any awards, especially since I just finished two of his special projects.she wrote a one bullet AAM and viola.
GySgt Bill Smith have you tried competing in a Connelly Food Service Competition? That could produce an opportunity to train/recognize your soldiers and you at the same time.
That is how I ended up (unbeknownst to me at the time) getting my first AAM. My Squadron Commander saw me at Thanksgiving, looked at the XO and asked her why I didn't have any awards, especially since I just finished two of his special projects.she wrote a one bullet AAM and viola.
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GySgt Bill Smith
Sir, I will ask my command if there is anything I can do extra to make a greater impact on my unit.
Sadly we do not wear our ASUs at Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner. If worst comes to worst I will make a Christmas card of myself in ASUs and send it out to the chain of command.(j/k)
Sadly we do not wear our ASUs at Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner. If worst comes to worst I will make a Christmas card of myself in ASUs and send it out to the chain of command.(j/k)
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LTC Jason Mackay
GySgt Bill Smith - When you go see the CSM bring your DA Photo for his opinion/ review.
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1SG (Join to see)
I second the Connelly Award Competition suggestion. It will give you and your Soldiers an opportunity to showcase what you do.
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Don't worry too much about it SSgt. It seems that you just had crappy leaders who were probably the type to take all the credit for themselves rather than take the time to award their junior Marines for their work!
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GySgt Bill Smith
I have learned 'Resentment Is Like Taking Poison And Waiting For The Other Person To Die'. But sometimes I still crawl in that dark hole and feel anger for all the Marines that gave everything they had on deployments and didn't even get a proper farewell. Used up and disposed of like a Bic lighter.
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I saw a LTC's DA Photo. The highest award he had was an Army Reserve Components Achievement Medal (this is below an AAM). This was consistent with the performance and leadership that I observed. The left me with the question: How does someone get promoted to LTC with such poor performance?
To answer the question, Its uncommon.
To answer the question, Its uncommon.
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LTC Paul Labrador
Well what was his branch? Remember some clinicians can come into service at advanced ranks based on their civilian experience, yet have as much in-uniform time as a PV2.....
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LTC (Join to see)
LTC Paul Labrador - I don't remember his branch. But I can assure you he was not a clinician. He was the most worthless SM I have seen in 28+ years.
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I had a SSG a few years back that had been in the military some kind of way since 1977, and had somehow managed to be in most of the components at some point.
AC USMC.
USMC Reserve.
Navy Reserve.
Air National Guard.
Army National Guard.
And finally USAR.
And he didn't have a single award to show for it, which I thought was pretty much impossible in the Air National Guard.
He wasn't the best Soldier, nor was he a particularly good leader. He was not assertive at all, and his Soldiers didn't respect him. I spent a lot of time trying to get blood from this turnip, and I am pleased to say that over time he was able to grow and contribute to the unit in a meaningful way.
In 2012, he went to NTC as on OC/T and really did a nice job giving feedback and evaluating the performance of the CA Team he was observing. It was an easy AAM to write. When he got it pinned on, you would have thought that he'd gotten the Legion of Merit. It was a very big deal to him to be recognized after all of those years, and I think it meant a bit more that it came from me... but he earned it.
In order to get awards, you need to have an opportunity to excel. Seek those out, and recognition will follow.
AC USMC.
USMC Reserve.
Navy Reserve.
Air National Guard.
Army National Guard.
And finally USAR.
And he didn't have a single award to show for it, which I thought was pretty much impossible in the Air National Guard.
He wasn't the best Soldier, nor was he a particularly good leader. He was not assertive at all, and his Soldiers didn't respect him. I spent a lot of time trying to get blood from this turnip, and I am pleased to say that over time he was able to grow and contribute to the unit in a meaningful way.
In 2012, he went to NTC as on OC/T and really did a nice job giving feedback and evaluating the performance of the CA Team he was observing. It was an easy AAM to write. When he got it pinned on, you would have thought that he'd gotten the Legion of Merit. It was a very big deal to him to be recognized after all of those years, and I think it meant a bit more that it came from me... but he earned it.
In order to get awards, you need to have an opportunity to excel. Seek those out, and recognition will follow.
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GySgt Bill Smith
Sounds like all of the higher leadership in this post is coming to the same conclusion. Seek out opportunities and excel in that opportunity. Thanks for the advise 1SG
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1SG (Join to see)
PO1 Thomas Jenkins - To a point. But if memory serves, he was USMC for 4 years, USMC Reserve for four, Navy Reserve for 9 years, Air Guard for five years, Army Guard for four years, and USAR for the last ten or so, with short breaks in service in between. When he retired, I asked him when he was joining the Merchant Marine...
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1SG (Join to see)
PO1 Thomas Jenkins - He was a tough nut to crack, in terms of getting valuable contributions to the unit. I have to say, getting him some confidence and putting him in position to contribute is right up there with things I consider to be great successes in my time as First Sergeant.
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1SG (Join to see)
GySgt John Olson - When I first met him, he was an E-5 and consensus was he should stay that way. His commander (later my first commander as a 1SG) saw it another way, and allowed him to board. To everyone's surprise, despite his complete lack of awards he was selected for Staff Sergeant - where he stayed for the next eight years.
I remember one time we were at Fort McCoy doing premobilization training in advance to deploying to Iraq. We had spent all day on the MOUT site on a pretty hot day, and I was feeling pretty tore up from jumping through windows and such. I came in muttering to myself about "being too old for this crap" (I was 34 at the time) and SSG P pipes up, "How do you think I feel?" (he was fifty-something at the time).
I said to him, "You know what the difference is between being thirty-something and fifty something? When your are in your twenties, you can do this kind of thing all day. When your in your thirties, you can remember being able to do this all day, and still can, but you pay for it afterwards. When you are in your fifties, you don't even remember being able to do it, you just hurt all the time, so you don't even try."
That got a good laugh out of the barracks.
SSG P wasn't a bad guy, he just wasn't SNCO material.
It is easy to win when the Army deals you nothing but face cards, but winning when you have the four of diamonds takes real skill.
I remember one time we were at Fort McCoy doing premobilization training in advance to deploying to Iraq. We had spent all day on the MOUT site on a pretty hot day, and I was feeling pretty tore up from jumping through windows and such. I came in muttering to myself about "being too old for this crap" (I was 34 at the time) and SSG P pipes up, "How do you think I feel?" (he was fifty-something at the time).
I said to him, "You know what the difference is between being thirty-something and fifty something? When your are in your twenties, you can do this kind of thing all day. When your in your thirties, you can remember being able to do this all day, and still can, but you pay for it afterwards. When you are in your fifties, you don't even remember being able to do it, you just hurt all the time, so you don't even try."
That got a good laugh out of the barracks.
SSG P wasn't a bad guy, he just wasn't SNCO material.
It is easy to win when the Army deals you nothing but face cards, but winning when you have the four of diamonds takes real skill.
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Sounds like bad units with bad leaders. I'm in the same boat as you. At the end of the day it is what it is.
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Don't get wrapped around the axle about awards. I had pretty good career. No bad paper two tours on the Drill Field and my highest Personal award was a NAM (2 awards). Awards tend to be based on how close you are to the flagpole. I made it a point to aviod Staff Billets.
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