Posted on Feb 18, 2016
Is it common for a person with 17 years in the military to not have a personal award?
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I did 8 years active duty in the Marines as a 0311 with 3 combat deployments. I am currently serving in the National Guard as a cook (E-7) and have 3 years till my 20. I have never had a bad fit rep or NCOER and my PT scores are high 280-300. I have never received a personal award, or letter of recommendation. I just don’t want to leave the military with a bitterness in my mouth thinking my years of service were not good enough.
After following this post, I have gathered some interesting opinions. 1. The awards system is "jacked up" 2. I should speak up and let my command know and ask how I can stand out.(the most constructive answer) 3. People get awards based on rank, mos, duty, unit, timing, and mission. (not always based on personal effort) 4. Don't worry once you retire they don't mean anything anyway. (which I don't believe) 5. Not all believe they deserved an award even if one was given, some believe they deserved more than what they got, then you have the haves telling the have nots why they are not worthy.
Thank you all for the advice and service.
Best,
Jason Sakowski
After following this post, I have gathered some interesting opinions. 1. The awards system is "jacked up" 2. I should speak up and let my command know and ask how I can stand out.(the most constructive answer) 3. People get awards based on rank, mos, duty, unit, timing, and mission. (not always based on personal effort) 4. Don't worry once you retire they don't mean anything anyway. (which I don't believe) 5. Not all believe they deserved an award even if one was given, some believe they deserved more than what they got, then you have the haves telling the have nots why they are not worthy.
Thank you all for the advice and service.
Best,
Jason Sakowski
Awards
Marine Corps
0311: Rifleman
Army National Guard
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 49
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Awards dont mean more retired pay. A cook has a better chance in the civilian world than a infantry guide.
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The awards system is definitely flawed in some senses, being a fellow combat vet I can relate I have no personal awards either per say, I do have a Combat Action Ribbon that says I did my job I guess but no NAM's or anything like that, I probably should have at least one for a couple of situations while on deployment in Fallujah Iraq but the NCO's and or the Officer that were present must not have felt it worthy of their time to recommend it. While it seems like others may have NAM's with V's for seemingly trivial things. Mainly because a couple of them got to gather and wrote each other up for it. Hate to say it but like everything else there is a lot of politics and buddy buddy involved even in the military awards system. Even worse than that is knowing some of your brothers that did very heroic things under fire and were even accredited with saving an Officers life yet they got an award (post posthumously because said Marine died later on that deployment before ever receiving any award for it.) that was less than it probably should have been or you feel others have may have gotten for the same type of actions.
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Everyone getting a bunch of medals seems to be have started around the early eighties. In fact many of them weren't created until then. In the sixties I saw many people with nothing but a Good Conduct Medal and a National Defense Service Medal. If they had been to Vietnam they usually had two more. The Army Achievement Medal didn't exist. Neither did the NCO Professional Development Ribbon, The Army Service Ribbon, the Overseas Service Ribbon and others. In over a year and a half in one company I only saw 3 ARCOMs awarded. A PCS got you a handshake. So did your ETS. During WWII my Dad served in Europe, N. Africa, the North Sea and on a sub chaser off the east coast. He had five including the Good Conduct Medal. Today I see people with more than many general officer used to have.
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I understand your concern completely I had three MSM downgraded as a SFC to ARCOM's and one down to a AAM
I was at one time along with every SFC I knew concerned about awards , why ? Because they looked at them for promotion .
Now if you have three years until you have your 20 Are you retiring ?
If you are retiring then it's nice to see on a wall but that and 5 bucks will get a cup of coffee
My view on awards was tarnished when I was in and I ensured every Soldier that was below the rank of E4 understood you don't get an award for doing your job you get a personal award for going above and beyond
Best part !! The ones who wanted to be competitive and have that acknowledgment understood and did exactly that
I never wrote an award that was for someone doing their job they had to meet the criteria regardless of rank I even wrote a couple officers awards NOW back on topic be proud of what you have done. You have a great career you are doing what you enjoy. Just have fun these last few years
I was at one time along with every SFC I knew concerned about awards , why ? Because they looked at them for promotion .
Now if you have three years until you have your 20 Are you retiring ?
If you are retiring then it's nice to see on a wall but that and 5 bucks will get a cup of coffee
My view on awards was tarnished when I was in and I ensured every Soldier that was below the rank of E4 understood you don't get an award for doing your job you get a personal award for going above and beyond
Best part !! The ones who wanted to be competitive and have that acknowledgment understood and did exactly that
I never wrote an award that was for someone doing their job they had to meet the criteria regardless of rank I even wrote a couple officers awards NOW back on topic be proud of what you have done. You have a great career you are doing what you enjoy. Just have fun these last few years
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GySgt Bill Smith
Thanks for the input, but your point of views are contradicting. To me awards will still hold their value after retirement, awards are a symbol of acknowledgment. Just because they hang on a uniform that hangs in the dark closet does not take away there value. You talk about having three MSMs down graded, you cant tell me you didn't think you deserved the MSMs and felt cheated. Please don't assume I did not give my all in every mission I was given.
After following this post, I have gathered some interesting opinions. 1. The awards system is "jacked up" 2. I should speak up and let my command know and ask how I can stand out.(the most constructive answer) 3. People get awards based on rank, mos, duty, unit, timing, and mission. 4. Don't worry once you retire they don't mean anything anyway. (which I don't believe)
After following this post, I have gathered some interesting opinions. 1. The awards system is "jacked up" 2. I should speak up and let my command know and ask how I can stand out.(the most constructive answer) 3. People get awards based on rank, mos, duty, unit, timing, and mission. 4. Don't worry once you retire they don't mean anything anyway. (which I don't believe)
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SFC Daniel Faires
Love it !! That right there is the right attitude.!!!
In my honest humble ridiculous opinion
Yes I felt cheated at the time
Now I know what really meant the most to me was the write up , I value the write ups now more than the award itself
Honestly having these awards now
Look great in my retirement photo and look great on the wall
But they haven't helped me in the civilian world at all
For you trying to be competitive and advancing your career absolutely you need them, promotion boards and such always look at those!
This is what I used to do when I thought I was deserving of an award I would look at my NCOER and I would honestly look at what I had done in the past year and look at the requirements then I would write one just to see if I felt I earned one, usually I couldn't justify it
Now I never turned any of those in, I would talk to my rater while doing my NCOER and mention that awards are one thing that are looked at during promotion and get the feedback from them.
Good luck and God speed !!!
In my honest humble ridiculous opinion
Yes I felt cheated at the time
Now I know what really meant the most to me was the write up , I value the write ups now more than the award itself
Honestly having these awards now
Look great in my retirement photo and look great on the wall
But they haven't helped me in the civilian world at all
For you trying to be competitive and advancing your career absolutely you need them, promotion boards and such always look at those!
This is what I used to do when I thought I was deserving of an award I would look at my NCOER and I would honestly look at what I had done in the past year and look at the requirements then I would write one just to see if I felt I earned one, usually I couldn't justify it
Now I never turned any of those in, I would talk to my rater while doing my NCOER and mention that awards are one thing that are looked at during promotion and get the feedback from them.
Good luck and God speed !!!
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Your good cookie is a personal award, I can see it in your damn picture.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
I don't see it that way. When j was in the Corps the only personal award I received was the good conduct medal. Since being in the Guard I got an ARCOM, but it was a BS blanket award given to all lower enlisted. be proud on what you have earned.
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I'll say up front that our awards system is broken.
For what it's worth, I can count the times I've seen an Officer or senior NCO receive an award outside of a deployment on one hand. We seem to focus on SGT and below. While it's great that we take care of our junior troops, it can be disheartening for leaders who didn't pick any awards up along the way.
As others have said, some of it may be the unit you're in. The unit I "grew up in" was extremely tight with awards. We had troops hit with falling shrapnel overseas they refused to award CIBs. We also had rampant downgrading of awards. In my Company we had NCOs whose end of tour awards were downgraded to AAMs. PLs and PSGs also received lesser awards than the SLs they led. I left after 6 years with one award: my downgraded end of tour award from the deployment. Since transferring to a different Brigade things have changed dramatically. In 3 years of service I've received two ARCOMs and the Order of St Maurice.
It may be something you ask your chain of command. As a PL I had a SSG ask me if there was something he was doing wrong. After 8 years in service he had not received any recognition. He was an extremely competent NCO who was probably just overlooked. Unfortunately it happens.
For what it's worth, I can count the times I've seen an Officer or senior NCO receive an award outside of a deployment on one hand. We seem to focus on SGT and below. While it's great that we take care of our junior troops, it can be disheartening for leaders who didn't pick any awards up along the way.
As others have said, some of it may be the unit you're in. The unit I "grew up in" was extremely tight with awards. We had troops hit with falling shrapnel overseas they refused to award CIBs. We also had rampant downgrading of awards. In my Company we had NCOs whose end of tour awards were downgraded to AAMs. PLs and PSGs also received lesser awards than the SLs they led. I left after 6 years with one award: my downgraded end of tour award from the deployment. Since transferring to a different Brigade things have changed dramatically. In 3 years of service I've received two ARCOMs and the Order of St Maurice.
It may be something you ask your chain of command. As a PL I had a SSG ask me if there was something he was doing wrong. After 8 years in service he had not received any recognition. He was an extremely competent NCO who was probably just overlooked. Unfortunately it happens.
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SPC Darren Koele
You are correct, about everything. I don't how or where he got the authority or influence, but our 1st Sgt was able to downgrade TWO Bronze Stars for which our whole squad was recommended. One was recommended by our squad leader and the other was an S3 officer, a major, who was heavily involved in our activities (as Engineers). Both were downgraded to a single Army Commendation Medal. Considering I had just received an ArCom a year and half previously for simply completing a tour of duty at another unit, the award meant nothing to me; or the rest of the squad. It was hard enough to get any award or promotion in our platoon as we were in a support platoon of a combat engineering unit. When I came to the combat engineers, it was like a fire sale on medals and promotions; they couldn't give them away fast enough.
Now, I don't know how much truth there is to the 1st Sgt story and his downgrading of medals (I didn't think he had that authority, especially when a recommendation is made by a Major from brigade S3), but I do know he believed no one under the rank of platoon sergeant should get a Bronze Star... however, after Desert Storm, the three combat engineer platoon sergeants all got Bronze Stars, and even the 1st Sergeant got a Bronze Star.
During our next inspection, we were still pissed and felt we had to make a statement. So we stood there in our dress uniforms with nothing more than our army service ribbon, good conduct medals, overseas service ribbon, and Southwest Asia Service Ribbon. All other ribbons/awards were left off. Yes, our unprofessional and undisciplined act of protest angered the !st Sgt something awful, but we found the counseling statements to be worth it (none of us were planning on being lifers). Were we proud of the action we took? Other than we stood together, no, I can't say we were proud of it. But it did open the door for us to air our grievances. I think the worst part was, 2 months after that inspection, the 1st Sgt had the nerve to question why I turned down his offer (wasn't so much an offer as it was a strong request) to send me to PLDC and why I didn't want to reenlist.
So yes, I know those units your are talking about.
Now, I don't know how much truth there is to the 1st Sgt story and his downgrading of medals (I didn't think he had that authority, especially when a recommendation is made by a Major from brigade S3), but I do know he believed no one under the rank of platoon sergeant should get a Bronze Star... however, after Desert Storm, the three combat engineer platoon sergeants all got Bronze Stars, and even the 1st Sergeant got a Bronze Star.
During our next inspection, we were still pissed and felt we had to make a statement. So we stood there in our dress uniforms with nothing more than our army service ribbon, good conduct medals, overseas service ribbon, and Southwest Asia Service Ribbon. All other ribbons/awards were left off. Yes, our unprofessional and undisciplined act of protest angered the !st Sgt something awful, but we found the counseling statements to be worth it (none of us were planning on being lifers). Were we proud of the action we took? Other than we stood together, no, I can't say we were proud of it. But it did open the door for us to air our grievances. I think the worst part was, 2 months after that inspection, the 1st Sgt had the nerve to question why I turned down his offer (wasn't so much an offer as it was a strong request) to send me to PLDC and why I didn't want to reenlist.
So yes, I know those units your are talking about.
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I know it's no help but it's likely the Army would have given you 10+ personal awards by now. 0 in 17 years seems a little too stern but it says something about the Marine award system.
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