Posted on Jun 1, 2023
Is it normal to lose two stripes when transferring services?
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Yesterday I went from an E-6 in the ANG to an E-4 in the Army Guard. I was selected for a pilot slot, so the rank is temporary until I attend WOCS in January, but it is a pretty significant pay cut for me when I go through basic training. My recruiter had submitted a grade waiver to keep my rank and NGB denied it. I was going to press the issue until I read through AR 600-8-19 CAO 16 May 2019, paragraph 7-24, which essentially says USAF PME does not count and will not be waivered.
However, I have seen several references on this website from USAF NCOs who were able to keep their rank after transferring to the army, so I guess I am curious how they were able to manage that.
However, I have seen several references on this website from USAF NCOs who were able to keep their rank after transferring to the army, so I guess I am curious how they were able to manage that.
Prior Service
Air National Guard
Guard
Warrant Officer Candidate
PME
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 8
Is it "normal"? That completely depends on your situation regarding if you have the qualifications for holding that rank according to the other Service's standard.
DoD's guidance to the Services for inter-service transfers is to maintain the rank from the prior Service "if possible". It is more commonplace that it would be a reduction of one grade, but a two grade reduction does occur, especially if there is a PME requirement involved (such as your situation).
As to your last question, there are many possibilities, but they all come down two situations - they were either qualified to hold the rank or they had a waiver approved by HRC.
It IS possible that you could have a waiver approved, but you would have to show that you demonstrated that you met the learning objectives for BLC* (for E-5) and ALC (for E-6). AR 350-1* para 3-20 lays out the requirements you'd have to go though in order to show constructive or operations credit based on your experience in the Air Force.
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* Army's BLC Individual Student Assessment Plan (ISAP) - https://www.usar.army.mil/Portals/98/Images/Training_Commands/83rd%20USARRTC/McCoy/BLC/ISAP.PDF
* AR 350-1 - https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN18487_R350_1_Admin_FINAL.pdf
DoD's guidance to the Services for inter-service transfers is to maintain the rank from the prior Service "if possible". It is more commonplace that it would be a reduction of one grade, but a two grade reduction does occur, especially if there is a PME requirement involved (such as your situation).
As to your last question, there are many possibilities, but they all come down two situations - they were either qualified to hold the rank or they had a waiver approved by HRC.
It IS possible that you could have a waiver approved, but you would have to show that you demonstrated that you met the learning objectives for BLC* (for E-5) and ALC (for E-6). AR 350-1* para 3-20 lays out the requirements you'd have to go though in order to show constructive or operations credit based on your experience in the Air Force.
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* Army's BLC Individual Student Assessment Plan (ISAP) - https://www.usar.army.mil/Portals/98/Images/Training_Commands/83rd%20USARRTC/McCoy/BLC/ISAP.PDF
* AR 350-1 - https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN18487_R350_1_Admin_FINAL.pdf
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It's not unheard of but it all depends on the details. I'm sure if you dialed down into the weeds you would see something that would explain the difference in your situation when compared to other folks who kept their rank. It could be a policy or it could be a training or qualification issue. It's hard to debate when all of the details are unknown factors. When I was on my second contract I entertained the idea of transferring to the Coast Guard but because they are rate based and I was Infantry at the time I would have had to go from an E5 to an E3 and at what would have been my 8 year mark that just didn't seem prudent so I didn't go through with it.
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SPC (Join to see) as LTC Trent Klug pointed out, branch transfers are scrutinized pretty heavily.
If you are transferring to the same MOS from AD to AR/NG you will likely keep the rank. Going the other way, you might lose a grade or two depending on your service record (deployments/ accrued AD time, etc). Crossing branches is trickier. Most times the MOSs do not match up, and likely you won't have supervisory experience in the job specialty you are going into, let alone subject matter expertise. The PME requirement is a huge one.
Without more information on the other USAF NCOs, no one will be able to tell you how they kept their rank. Maybe they were going into the same or a similar MOS, maybe they were going into a critical shortage MOS with "will train" stipulations, maybe their rank was converted to "temporary" pending completion of required PME for whatever other reason.
What MOS did you have from the ANG and which MOS are you slotted in now?
If you are transferring to the same MOS from AD to AR/NG you will likely keep the rank. Going the other way, you might lose a grade or two depending on your service record (deployments/ accrued AD time, etc). Crossing branches is trickier. Most times the MOSs do not match up, and likely you won't have supervisory experience in the job specialty you are going into, let alone subject matter expertise. The PME requirement is a huge one.
Without more information on the other USAF NCOs, no one will be able to tell you how they kept their rank. Maybe they were going into the same or a similar MOS, maybe they were going into a critical shortage MOS with "will train" stipulations, maybe their rank was converted to "temporary" pending completion of required PME for whatever other reason.
What MOS did you have from the ANG and which MOS are you slotted in now?
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SPC (Join to see)
CSM Everroad, I was enlisted intelligence and I am going into a WOFT slot. The rank reduction mostly will affect my pay while at basic training and the few drills I will have to do before WOCS. The USAF E-7 who kept his rank whose posts I had been following had been some form of cyber guy, he transferred to the army as a warrant officer in a similar career field but was able to keep his E-7 through basic. I can't find the posts for the other USAF member who transferred and kept his rank.
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CSM William Everroad
SPC (Join to see) It's not about "keeping the rank". There are two things at play, you are assigned a unit while attending WOBC and in that unit a specific para/line number. All of my past WOCs were assigned a slot based on their enlisted MOS/grade. If there was not one for the MOS, they pick a vacant one at random. Really all that the WOC branch impacts is assignment after WOBC. You do not transition your enlisted rank or MOS until graduation. Additionally, you do not meet the PME requirement for the grade you are trying to retain in the branch. My guess is that the USAF E7 had finished the PME for E8 or had some sort of PME that matched the requirements for the slot they were being assigned to or was assigned in a slot that closely matched the enlisted MOS already held. Especially since senior PME is more MOS specific. Ultimately, that is the decision matrix when the State approves or denies the grade waiver.
I am not sure that your feeder MOS has much, if anything, to do with rank retention while a WO candidate, so I will defer to someone who has been through WOBC while assigned as a TPU NG soldier.
I am not sure that your feeder MOS has much, if anything, to do with rank retention while a WO candidate, so I will defer to someone who has been through WOBC while assigned as a TPU NG soldier.
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