Posted on Apr 17, 2014
Is it possible for every Soldier (not on profile) to score a 300 on the APFT?
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Everyone has a limit right? If not we could all be gold medalist in the 100m dash. But is it possible no matter how hard someone works they will never reach a 300?<div>If so, is that fair since a APFT score is used directly to determine whether someone will or will not get promoted based off of their total score.</div><div>For example someone who's cut-off for promotion to SSG is 790. They are maxed out on everything but their APFT. No matter what they can't run a sub 13:00 2 mile.</div><div>Maybe APFT scores should be used on a broader scale. Like points go up for every 30 point difference in score. i.e. 270 and up would be max promotion points.</div>
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APFT
Physical Training
APFT Physical Training
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 59
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It's very disturbing to see all these 'No' votes.
I'd be curious to see how many 'No' votes have attained a 300 on their APFT.
PERSONAL STORY: At ANCOC (2006), I 'earned' a 218 on the APFT...I was embarrassed, but my previous leadership and team did not put an emphasis on APFT.
My next assignment (which I knew was coming during ANCOC), I was going to be working for a 'PT FREAK'...I was nervous. After only a day at my new assignment, we went to the gym EVERY DAY at lunch. Within 2 months I scored a 291 and 6 months later I was scoring 325 (extended scale, if there was one) and have consistently scored a 300 for the next 6 years (so far).
Why? I was assigned to leaders that emphasized, encouraged and lead by example when it came to healthy living. I have benefited ever since.
My last APFT (last month at the US Army Sergeant Major Academy) I scored a 287. Could I have scored higher? Yes, but I didn't work as hard (studying was more important).
The point is...we ALL have the ability (aside from injuries), but it's how we CHOOSE to live up or exceed our personal abilities that will determine our APFT score.
I'd be curious to see how many 'No' votes have attained a 300 on their APFT.
PERSONAL STORY: At ANCOC (2006), I 'earned' a 218 on the APFT...I was embarrassed, but my previous leadership and team did not put an emphasis on APFT.
My next assignment (which I knew was coming during ANCOC), I was going to be working for a 'PT FREAK'...I was nervous. After only a day at my new assignment, we went to the gym EVERY DAY at lunch. Within 2 months I scored a 291 and 6 months later I was scoring 325 (extended scale, if there was one) and have consistently scored a 300 for the next 6 years (so far).
Why? I was assigned to leaders that emphasized, encouraged and lead by example when it came to healthy living. I have benefited ever since.
My last APFT (last month at the US Army Sergeant Major Academy) I scored a 287. Could I have scored higher? Yes, but I didn't work as hard (studying was more important).
The point is...we ALL have the ability (aside from injuries), but it's how we CHOOSE to live up or exceed our personal abilities that will determine our APFT score.
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LTC (Join to see)
SPC Miller, Meb is also a runner by trade whose body is built to run long distances at a fast speed. There are some out there who will never max no matter what shape they are in.
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SFC (Join to see)
Great story but some people have conditions that prevent them from maxing a PT test no matter how hard they try. I understand your point about having a PT stud for a leader but no matter how you slice it EVERYBODY cannot max the PT test. However, I believe everyone can do better on their APFT if they train hard and put their mind to it. It's the same as anything else. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT and have different talents and abilities. Some leaders may max their PT test but are inept crappy leaders. Another leader may be able to pass their PT test or struggle to pass it, but are awesome leaders. Goes to show there's too much emphasis on being a PT stud in terms of how good or bad of a leader someone is. This PT test being the standard for a great leader is just bogus at best.
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SGT (Join to see)
The whole “soldiers just need to work harder, anyone can max a 300 if they work hard enough” is nonsense.
That logic applies to 180. Yes, every soldier should be able to achieve 180. But if anyone thinks that EVERY soldier should be able to reach the 100th percentile of any test isn’t being rational.
Not everyone can be the best. Do you think the minor leagues are full of baseball players that don’t reach the majors because they just don’t try hard enough? Sometimes, AAA ball is just their ceiling. Sometimes, a 275 (or 290 or 200 or 180 or 225 etc) APFT score is the physical ceiling for a soldier. As 180 is the minimum requirement, 275 isn’t bad.
Additionally, if everyone started banging out 300s, I’d laugh at every CSM and other senior leader and tell them not that their joes are so physically fit...but rather that their standards are too low. If you’re going to have a percentile based standard APFT, not everyone will be in the 100th percentile. Good lord.
That logic applies to 180. Yes, every soldier should be able to achieve 180. But if anyone thinks that EVERY soldier should be able to reach the 100th percentile of any test isn’t being rational.
Not everyone can be the best. Do you think the minor leagues are full of baseball players that don’t reach the majors because they just don’t try hard enough? Sometimes, AAA ball is just their ceiling. Sometimes, a 275 (or 290 or 200 or 180 or 225 etc) APFT score is the physical ceiling for a soldier. As 180 is the minimum requirement, 275 isn’t bad.
Additionally, if everyone started banging out 300s, I’d laugh at every CSM and other senior leader and tell them not that their joes are so physically fit...but rather that their standards are too low. If you’re going to have a percentile based standard APFT, not everyone will be in the 100th percentile. Good lord.
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1SG Ernest Stull
I agree with you that not everyone can reach a 300 test, but everyone can strive to make it. Now with the possible new ARPFT which to what I have heard its not going to be 3 events but more like six and its going to test your endurance much like the Darby Queen .
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A 300 is not as difficult as people make it out to be. We're not talking about olympic level fitness. Hell, we're not even talking about collegiate level fitness...try high school athletics. Unlike your average machine that has been built to certain specifications and can only perform to a fixed maximum, the body can improve its performance. The trick...it's PAINFUL. You have to want success more than you want to avoid pain. Some people want sleep more than they want success. Figure that one out. Argue this point about the body having limits, and I can go through all kinds of evidence to the contrary and people will still cling to the excuses that they have always had...so I'll point to pop-culture media. "The Biggest Loser." Watch that show and watch all the 300+ pound people on there and what they complain about and what they think they can't do...and then listen to them at the end. The weakness has been driven out of them and they continue to improve. This isn't about limits, it's about drive and the will to succeed. It's about wanting it more than sleep, wanting it more than avoiding pain, wanting it more than a GD donut. People need to accept responsibility...and then scream like a GD warrior and kill their next workout.
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CW2 Ernest Krutzsch
Depends on the person and their physical makeup. I was on of those who could never achieve a 300 (295), the reason..sit ups. I have arthritis in my back and neck, as a matter of fact, I had surgery on my neck, and the neurosurgeon who did the surgery said it was a direct result of doing situps with hands behind the neck, and hyper extending the neck. No matter how much I trained, I could not do enough situps to max out. I would hope that someone in the Army would have identified by now that sit ups with your hands behind your neck causes physical problems and that doing sit ups with your hands across your chest is a better indicator of strength.
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COL (Join to see)
Chief K, I already made an exception for you in my statement. If someone has a profile (3A or 3B), then there is ALWAYS leeway because the Army has said, "Soldier, you're broken. You need to do x and y to get better." Those people have an actual physical reason their body can't react the way it's supposed to. In fact it would hurt them more to push themselves. The Army's already accounted for that. I'm talking about healthy people who stop at average because they can.
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COL (Join to see)
I concur with everything you've said...except...while everyone worked out, can you really say that it was soul grinding, make you vomit kind of workout? The kind where you are shaking afterwards? If you're just doing average PT, you're only going to "maintain" and not improve.
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CW2 Ernest Krutzsch
I was referring to the time before the surgery, I still could not do situps no matter how long I spent in the gym, I did not have a profile for Arthritis, but it caused me not to be able to do situps
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This honestly disguise me to see leaders openly try to argue the fact that not everyone can score a 300. An APFT should be the easiest block of physical training you conduct. First let me start of by saying that the APFT doesn't accurately measure someones fitness. With that being said if you simply focus on those three events during your week while conducting other forms of physical training that pertain to your current fitness needs and sleep/eat right then you will max your APFT. Of course it may take some more time than others depending on how much they did or did not take care of there bodies. I will not sit here and tell you that I have scored a 300 on every APFT but that I've never scored below a 270 and strive for a 300 because it's easily achievable and we don't strive to be medicore. I strive to be the best and expect my Soldiers to follow my example. Maybe some of the leaders on this page need to look in the mirror and do a self evaluation. The Army is becoming a place for weak, sloppy, unfit, untrained Soldiers because we focus on whats fare instead of saying your fat or your sloppy fix yourself and it's not by striving to meet the minimal standards on a APFT. I will tell you that you are ruining the Army. You put it in Soldiers mind to meet the minimum standard and that's what they will do. I read a lot of post saying that everyone has limits and SSG Burns even talked about not being able to be a gold medalist in the 100m dash. That is ridiculous to try and compare running 2 miles in 13 min to winning a gold medal. You wouldn't compare high school football to the NFL. It's sad that is even a discussion point. Oh, as far as promotion if you don't take care of your body then what makes you think you'll take care of your Soldiers. If me scoring a 300 will get me promoted and I'm at a 290 then I promises you whatever event I didn't max I will work on day and night until I achieve it. But I have a lot of tattoos, my hair is long, I swear a lot, crush private when they mess up, I uphold the standards I enforce and will be the first to tell you that you embarrass the uniform that I am so proud to wear when your fat(over weight) so you probably should disregard what I am saying since I'm not professional.
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SSG Robert Burns
DS Spinks, thanks for your unique insight. You certainly see the Soldier's day in and day out from the beginning. So you get that shot to be the first influence. Let me correct you on my analogy. I am not comparing Olympics to the APFT. I am using Olympians, they highest trained athletes in the world to show the point that there is a limit to your physical ability. No one trains harder than they do and they all hit a limit no matter how much they want to improve. If they didn't we'd see new world records every other month. Instead we see them last for decades. Just like they have limits so do our Soldiers. There are some no matter how hard they try will not reach 300. You admittedly say yourself that it easy for you and still don't always achieve. So what about those that it is not easy for? What about those, who's baseline is not even close like 220?
Let me ask you this because I am really curious and have no clue except from my own basic training class. How many privates graduate with 300s? I know for my graduating class there were 3 of us. That would be about 1% I'm guessing. So where is the problem. Was it with the DS? Was it privates that didn't focus on the non-stop PT we did at 4 every morning? No motivation? I don't know. For us that could it was because we were already athletically gifted. I know most of my buddies were just as motivated as I was and only cared about getting that PT badge. Hardly anyone did. A bunch of 18 and 19 year old kids with no injuries being trained every day by those who are trained specially to train them.
Like I said before I've PT'd some of guys to the point of injury pushing them hard because they wanted me to and they wanted to get that 300. For me it was just a good workout, for them it was devastation.
I have set the example for my guys. I train with my guys. Some of them just don't get there.
You set the example for yours. You train them to death. They are highly motivated thanks to your leadership. And they don't get it. So what's the problem? My answer is physical ability.
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SFC (Join to see)
As stated earlier, I have to agree with SSG Burns - there are simply some people who, no matter how hard they try, are going to score a 300. However, I also know for a fact, that anyone, who really tries, CAN get REALLY CLOSE! 99% of the time, I'd say that running or situps are the major culprit in someone not being able to score a 300, but they sure as hell should be able to train hard enough to score a 290.
SFC Spinks is correct in that this should be the easiest block of training to conduct.
Though I don't think it's the easiest to achieve by any means - at least not right off the bat - for some it may take years.
It takes dedication, true motivation, to push yourself to improve your physical fitness. Anyone who is truly motivated can get at least a 290. It also takes a unit that supports you - and doesn't just push the minimum. Much of a PT program is dependent on the 1SG and PSGs enforcing standards, making Soldiers PT regularly, and encouraging a variety of challenging PT sessions on a weekly basis, and not just pushing the standard PU, SU, Run PT. Soldiers like variety, and love to be challenged, so when you fail to do anything but PU, SU, and run on a daily basis, you have Soldiers who get bored, and lose their motivation to do more than the standard.
SFC Spinks is correct in that this should be the easiest block of training to conduct.
Though I don't think it's the easiest to achieve by any means - at least not right off the bat - for some it may take years.
It takes dedication, true motivation, to push yourself to improve your physical fitness. Anyone who is truly motivated can get at least a 290. It also takes a unit that supports you - and doesn't just push the minimum. Much of a PT program is dependent on the 1SG and PSGs enforcing standards, making Soldiers PT regularly, and encouraging a variety of challenging PT sessions on a weekly basis, and not just pushing the standard PU, SU, Run PT. Soldiers like variety, and love to be challenged, so when you fail to do anything but PU, SU, and run on a daily basis, you have Soldiers who get bored, and lose their motivation to do more than the standard.
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