Posted on Apr 17, 2014
Is it possible for every Soldier (not on profile) to score a 300 on the APFT?
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Everyone has a limit right? If not we could all be gold medalist in the 100m dash. But is it possible no matter how hard someone works they will never reach a 300?<div>If so, is that fair since a APFT score is used directly to determine whether someone will or will not get promoted based off of their total score.</div><div>For example someone who's cut-off for promotion to SSG is 790. They are maxed out on everything but their APFT. No matter what they can't run a sub 13:00 2 mile.</div><div>Maybe APFT scores should be used on a broader scale. Like points go up for every 30 point difference in score. i.e. 270 and up would be max promotion points.</div>
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APFT Physical Training
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 59
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The APFT is a "broad" paint brush that is used to try to lump a large variety of personnel into defineable criteria. However, as stated, there are people who simply never will run a 13:00 minute 2-mile. I do believe that almost anyone can max their pushups. Situps, as you get older (trust me - I know) just get harder and harder to max. I agree that promotion points could be awarded on a broader scale, but I'd say for every 10 point or 20 point difference, and if you can super-max pushups and/or situps, but can't run, then the extra pushup/situp points could be used to make up some of the difference with the run.
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SFC (Join to see)
To be more specific, and give a couple of examples: Say you're a pushup stud. You consistently do 10-15 more pushups than is required to max the pushups. Say you can usually, but not always, just make the max on situps. Also, say you can't run for jack, but you can just keep going, and going, and going. Your APFT score breaks down like this: PU: 110-115 pts. SU: 95 pts. Run, 85 pts. The extra PU pts, could be used to bring your total score to a 295. If you broaden the APFT promotion points award, anything above a 290 (at a 10 point spread) would get you the max promotion points.
The same would go for those who can run, but have a hard time maxing pushups or situps. Points could be spread from any event that you supermax, to any event that you don't max - of if you want to have a little more incentive, you could limit it to events that you supermax by at least 5 points, or limit the spreading of points only to events that you score at least an 80 in or even limit the spread to those events that fall between a range of scores - for example, if you don't score 80 points in that event, the supermax points only give you 1 point for every 2 supermax points.
This could be worked practically any way you want.
It would even the playing field a little.
One other thing: I mentioned above about the guy that's like the EverReady Rabbit and just keeps going and going. It would be nice to see an optional event that truly measures your stamina and determination. Ruck Marches do this to some degree - but those who are slow on them, tend to be penalized while those who have long legs are usually the ruck march champs.
A true test, would be to see how long a Soldier could go on without stopping - Once they met a certain qualifying distance (say 10 KM with 30 lbs) and scored a 70, the Soldier could quit at any point, but for each 100M past that point (or 200, or whatever), they earn additional points... Of course, there would have to be a maximum distance (say what you could do in six or eight hours), and there would definitely have to be controls to prevent injuries, so I'm not sure this is entirely practical. Just another thought on how we can measure a Soldier's determination and stamina - since both are required in real world combat. This would be an optional event, and not necessarily tied to the APFT, but it could be used to give extra promotion points too - like the Soldier who takes a lot of correspondence courses uses those to get extra points.
The same would go for those who can run, but have a hard time maxing pushups or situps. Points could be spread from any event that you supermax, to any event that you don't max - of if you want to have a little more incentive, you could limit it to events that you supermax by at least 5 points, or limit the spreading of points only to events that you score at least an 80 in or even limit the spread to those events that fall between a range of scores - for example, if you don't score 80 points in that event, the supermax points only give you 1 point for every 2 supermax points.
This could be worked practically any way you want.
It would even the playing field a little.
One other thing: I mentioned above about the guy that's like the EverReady Rabbit and just keeps going and going. It would be nice to see an optional event that truly measures your stamina and determination. Ruck Marches do this to some degree - but those who are slow on them, tend to be penalized while those who have long legs are usually the ruck march champs.
A true test, would be to see how long a Soldier could go on without stopping - Once they met a certain qualifying distance (say 10 KM with 30 lbs) and scored a 70, the Soldier could quit at any point, but for each 100M past that point (or 200, or whatever), they earn additional points... Of course, there would have to be a maximum distance (say what you could do in six or eight hours), and there would definitely have to be controls to prevent injuries, so I'm not sure this is entirely practical. Just another thought on how we can measure a Soldier's determination and stamina - since both are required in real world combat. This would be an optional event, and not necessarily tied to the APFT, but it could be used to give extra promotion points too - like the Soldier who takes a lot of correspondence courses uses those to get extra points.
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Not everyone can achieve this. Plain and simple. I do however agree that the points should be important but not weighed soley on that. But if that were to happen junior enlisted will need evals to help commanders decide who and when to recommend for promotion.
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SSG Robert Burns
Do you remember how bad Oscar Patreous got beat in the Olympics. Do you remember how hard he trained and how much he wanted to just medal? But I guess you just think he didn't train hard enough or want it bad enough. That's insane.
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SGM Matthew Quick
Someone wanted it more (besides....he was obviously in a bad relationship and had other things on his mind. I.e. planning her murder)
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LTC Joseph Gross
I've never managed to score 100 in more than two events at a time. That doesn't mean I could not have made 300 if I had just worked a little harder but it is always easy to say you are too busy. But on to another point that likely was already mentioned. Not every Soldier without a profile is without medical problems. A broken back, a destroyed knee and ankle, broken elbow and injured other elbow, didn't get me a medical board or put me on a permanent profile but it sure has a cumulative impact over twenty eight years of service on how well I can PT. Finally at my last assignment with retirement looming and I have my first permanent profile.
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COL (Join to see)
Why do "we" keep brining up Olympic athletes. Your talking about the last 1% of the last 1% of the population who is actually able to achieve that standard. Getting a 300 on a PT test is not akin to marching up Bifrost, pimp slapping Heimdarll and taking over as the guardian to Mount Olympus. I say make it 400. Then people will actually have a reason to complain. Make it Olympic level...550 maybe. I need a slide rule. I'm going to figure this out. Where's my abacus?
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If it is physical, then I would be sympathetic and empathetic. But it has never been about the physical. To achieve the 300, one achieves standards that wouldn't even be considered "high-athletic in any field -- running, strength events etc.
When we changed the run minimum from 11:54 to 13:00, many us that want to be considered athletes predicated that the scale will move up -- we would regress to the new mean -- and we did. Now someone who runs in the low 12's is considered "super-fast". Disappointing.
Effort, time and desire. That's all it takes. If someone wants to lead in combat, put the time and effort into your profession to excel. We shouldn't be advocating to lower the standard again (*and I know how I am using the word "standard" here and I am aware of what the regulatory standard is. But I don't tell my kids that a C is good on a test -- the standard is an A+. He doesn't have to achieve it, but he needs to try for it. The same holds for me and those I lead with everything we do, rightfully so since the stakes for failure n our profession are a little steep).
As I often say, we can be better. We must be better, in all that we do.
When we changed the run minimum from 11:54 to 13:00, many us that want to be considered athletes predicated that the scale will move up -- we would regress to the new mean -- and we did. Now someone who runs in the low 12's is considered "super-fast". Disappointing.
Effort, time and desire. That's all it takes. If someone wants to lead in combat, put the time and effort into your profession to excel. We shouldn't be advocating to lower the standard again (*and I know how I am using the word "standard" here and I am aware of what the regulatory standard is. But I don't tell my kids that a C is good on a test -- the standard is an A+. He doesn't have to achieve it, but he needs to try for it. The same holds for me and those I lead with everything we do, rightfully so since the stakes for failure n our profession are a little steep).
As I often say, we can be better. We must be better, in all that we do.
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I'm not a 300 PT Test Score (but I am working on improving to be one). I absolutely believe anyone can do it. It requires work from the people who want to achieve it unless they're naturally gifted, but it can be done.
I've heard of old men and women in their late eighties running marathons. I've heard of old men climbing Everest. And I've heard of Soldiers who run 300s in their sleep.
What's to say every Soldier, Marine, Sailor, and Airman can't be a 300? The only thing I see stopping us all from being 300s (save for people with profiles) is a lack of motivation. I hope that is not confused for laziness, but some people don't prioritize a 300 PT Score. Other priorities (as SGM Quick mentioned with his example of studying) may take precedence and there is nothing wrong with that, but I absolutely believe that everyone can be a 300 PT Score (with some notable exceptions).
I've heard of old men and women in their late eighties running marathons. I've heard of old men climbing Everest. And I've heard of Soldiers who run 300s in their sleep.
What's to say every Soldier, Marine, Sailor, and Airman can't be a 300? The only thing I see stopping us all from being 300s (save for people with profiles) is a lack of motivation. I hope that is not confused for laziness, but some people don't prioritize a 300 PT Score. Other priorities (as SGM Quick mentioned with his example of studying) may take precedence and there is nothing wrong with that, but I absolutely believe that everyone can be a 300 PT Score (with some notable exceptions).
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Simply put, yes, everyone has the abilty (exception given to temporary illness/physical ailement). No, not everyone has the will. Yes, score should tie to promotion points to ensure leaders can lead by example, no matter the age. Good debate.
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Everyone CAN, but not everyone WILL achieve 300. That said, I don't think every Soldier in a unit can score 300 on a farily graded APFT unless they're on some sort of Army sports team (eg boxing, track, biathalon).
I would be happy to hit 300 just one more time; last score was 290, so I'm getting close. I have a feeling the 300 will go into the same category as me wearing my campaign hat - nice idea, but probably not in the cards.
I would be happy to hit 300 just one more time; last score was 290, so I'm getting close. I have a feeling the 300 will go into the same category as me wearing my campaign hat - nice idea, but probably not in the cards.
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SFC (Join to see)
The APFT isn't designed for all Soldiers to attain a 300 on their APFT, despite some peoples mind set; if they want to achieve it then they will put forth the time and effort to do so. Although this is a great thought or idea, that is all it is. Soldiers are just physiologically different, hence having a PT scale rather than just a pass or fail. There is an anticipation that Soldiers will perform at different levels despite the desire for all to achieve a 300 on the APFT. The scales are based on the Army desired average output of a Soldier on a physical scale. Just keep pushing Soldiers to run faster and push harder, taking them to their limits on a daily basis.
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1SG Michael Blount
SFC - I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that attaining 300 on the APFT is just an idea. It's one of the few areas in which a Soldier, regardless of rank or age, can exercise some initiative at self improvement and have it count on his/her NCOER. Now, I agree that the test itself, along with the scoring criteria are messed up. Let's face it -- next time any of us need to run 2 miles straight on the battlefield, we're in some serious trouble. Personally, I prefer a more tactically-oriented APFT. However, I can't fault the people who exercise some initiative at self improvement and want to be the absolute best they can. Give me five more people like that any day of the week.
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1SG (Join to see)
I will let you know soon. I am in the same boat. Just started the military athlete program.
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Physical fitness standards have always been taken into close consideration in the military and that will not change. I had a pushup profile for many years due to collapsed bones in my wrist, and suffered with a crappy APFT score until I decided to gut it out and do fist pushups. I don't come anywhere close to maxing them but I pass. Anybody who said life is fair is lying to themself.
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Suspended Profile
Everyone is capable of scoring a 300 on the APFT.
Capt Jeff S.
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No, it is not an April Fools Day joke. Georgia Congressman Hank Johnson (Democrat) said during an Armed Services Committee hearing last week that Guam is in ...
In a force that was 186,000 strong, the good Lord saw fit to bless my efforts and I was one of 60 enlisted selected back in '86 to earn a commission through a special program that kept me on AD for the four years I went through college. It was better than any scholarship you could get. I got paid to go to school! If I thought like everyone else, I would have thought I didn't stand a chance and wouldn't have put in for it. There were a lot of good Marines that unfortunately didn't get that chance either because their GySgt's didn't feel like going through the trouble of recommending them or they felt the odds were too stacked against them. I am both thankful for having had the opportunity to achieve and humbled to have been able to be selected to come up through the ranks and go from Private to Captain in an organization as elite as the Marine Corps...
That is not to say that parts of the Army aren't elite, as Delta Force most certainly is, but as a whole, the Army does not challenge its people to the same level of performance. The Army bar is lower.
To max the Marine PFT, one must run 3 miles in 18:00. That's adding 50% more distance and having to run it at a faster pace. And you mean to tell me that 13:00 is too hard for 2 miles? ???
You are already beaten if you think it is -- you and your Army buds that you are infecting with your negativity and defeatist mental attitude -- those who don't want to put out, that agree with you. Having the majority opinion doesn't necessarily make you right.
In saying that I think people could work harder, that also assumes that I believe every soldier can max the APFT. So really, there are about 34% (28+6) sharing my opinion. I'm not as "out there" in my opinion as you are attempting to portray.
Now with that said, let's relate your logic of the majority having the best opinion to voting -- since this was a poll after all...
The majority of voters in Hank Johnson's district elected him to represent them. What does that say about them?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs23CjIWMgA
That is not to say that parts of the Army aren't elite, as Delta Force most certainly is, but as a whole, the Army does not challenge its people to the same level of performance. The Army bar is lower.
To max the Marine PFT, one must run 3 miles in 18:00. That's adding 50% more distance and having to run it at a faster pace. And you mean to tell me that 13:00 is too hard for 2 miles? ???
You are already beaten if you think it is -- you and your Army buds that you are infecting with your negativity and defeatist mental attitude -- those who don't want to put out, that agree with you. Having the majority opinion doesn't necessarily make you right.
In saying that I think people could work harder, that also assumes that I believe every soldier can max the APFT. So really, there are about 34% (28+6) sharing my opinion. I'm not as "out there" in my opinion as you are attempting to portray.
Now with that said, let's relate your logic of the majority having the best opinion to voting -- since this was a poll after all...
The majority of voters in Hank Johnson's district elected him to represent them. What does that say about them?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs23CjIWMgA
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Capt Jeff S.
Nah, and I don't have all day to search for excuses.
Your Cmdr-in-Chief sure likes to make excuses and blame others for his failings, and he sure does know how to make time for golfing. It's just a matter of priorities...
Perhaps the amount of effort you put into defending your inability to score a 300 could have been better spent working out. ; )
Your Cmdr-in-Chief sure likes to make excuses and blame others for his failings, and he sure does know how to make time for golfing. It's just a matter of priorities...
Perhaps the amount of effort you put into defending your inability to score a 300 could have been better spent working out. ; )
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Sgt Packy Flickinger
If everybody were able to score a perfect score, then the test itself is too easy. In the old Marine PFT I was middle of the pack in running, tops in pull-ups, but could not get my sit-ups very high regardless of how much I worked on them. Funny, because before the Corps I was a bodybuilder. You should strive to do the best you can, but never make "excuses" for what you can't.
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SFC (Join to see)
If you make all the minimums right now.... the maximums... than yes it is more likely to be possible. LOL
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This post has been on Facebook for a day and has over 225 comments. We have 32 on here? Im so disappointed.
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