Posted on Dec 17, 2015
Is it possible to have political opinions in the military without a conflict of interest?
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In it's latest bit of "journalism," The Beast published this page turner about the political rants of officers in the Pentagon. There's a bright idea. Let's spout our political opinions in front of a reporter. The public respects us. In some ways it's because we are an apolitical arm of the government. I'm not sure it's possible to vent political frustrations without undermining what we stand for. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/16/pentagon-troops-it-s-us-or-trump.html?source=TDB&via=FB_Page#
Posted in these groups: 
Politics
Republicans
Politics Republicans
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
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Are we really debating politics or are we debating the security of the nation? It seems to me that what many regard as political rants are really voices of concern over the poor handling of security matters. We have a President who has spent seven years not only disengaging from world affairs which is tantamount to isolationism (and we know how that strategy has brought us into two World Wars). His Scty of State was playing fast and loose with document security (just to name one sin). His appointees to national councils carry membership cards in organizations that are terribly close to being enemies of the state. Sure, they want to shut us up and us strictures against political opinion as their weapon of choice, but is it really political?
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COL (Join to see)
I'd ask McArthur what the difference between security matters and political matters are. Pretty thin line there. Especially when it is voiced publicly. Now, when I retire...the gloves come off.
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CPT Jack Durish
COL (Join to see) - I have long believed that my first duty as a veteran is to speak on behalf of those who are muzzled
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I would ask the question is it possible to have conservative values in the military without a conflict of interest?
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COL (Join to see)
The Army, as a top-down, hierarchical organization is stereotypically a conservative organization. Change is very difficult to implement and is resisted from the top to the bottom. Individuals can vary, but the institution is built to be conservative in its actions and ethics. Tell me the Warrior Ethos isn't highly conservative and harkens back to a time when men killed each other with pointy objects.
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Robert A. Heinlein seemed to think not. And that only those who had risked their lives for the good of others could be qualified to hold meaningful political opinions after the end of their service.
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COL (Join to see)
A very good point. If we interpreted Mr. Heinlein's work literally though, we would also have public floggings and hangings in response to transgressions worthy of them. I think that kind of representation would be untenable in America...unless there was an existential threat. Like alien bugs.
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Capt Richard I P.
COL (Join to see) Or a societal-collapse induced by decades long war between Asian and Western Powers (mostly China and the US) wrecking the world economy, trade and social order, slow order being re-established by grassroots committees of people qualifies to do so: the veterans of the war, who held as a condition of membership in the committee veterancy.
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There is room for having personal political opinions, but we have to be very careful about how we voice those opinions. The danger is that our opinions are taken as an endorsement of one political view or another, particularly if we give it while we are in uniform or while executing our official duties. Officially we (the military) must remain apolitical. We serve the nation, not a particular political party, else we can be used as a an arm of a political party. That only leads to folly.
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COL (Join to see)
Especially as officers. Not to slight anyone, but a Specialist can get away with saying some crazy s#!+ in public about politics. An officer..especially those in the Pentagon, are considered mouth pieces for the institution. Open mouth...see it in the paper.
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LTC Paul Labrador
COL (Join to see) - That is the difference between standing in the ranks (where you have a degree of anonymity) and standing in front of the ranks where you as an individual are, for a lack of a better term, in the spotlight.
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You bet we can have political opinions, but there are rules. You can't attend political rallies in uniform. You can't bring campaign literature to the office. You can't use Army resources to fund-raise.
But debating the issues of policy is as old as the Earth. Just be mindful of your audience and where you are at, keep it respectful, and you'll be alright.
But debating the issues of policy is as old as the Earth. Just be mindful of your audience and where you are at, keep it respectful, and you'll be alright.
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COL (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see), agreed. It's all about the audience. That being said, I've never discussed national politics with my peers. Don't think I ever will if I am in uniform. Definitely not with superiors or subordinates.
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Absolutely, you can have your opinion. The unfortunate side of the argument is that you may not be able to voice them as freely as you could as a civilian.
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COL (Join to see)
I guess it's more a question of publicly sharing our opinions. One has to be careful, especially when in uniform. Now, if you are in uniform and a reporter is around...shut your pie hole.
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I think you have to seperate policy & principles from politics in terms Democrat or Republican loyalty. By way of example, I think people in the military ought to formulate their views on US involment in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Bosnia etc from the same principle; not merely which party POTUS comes from.
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COL (Join to see)
and I think that is what we are supposed to be doing. We provide military opinion on the suitability and feasibility of possible operations and ongoing operations. We do so with a lack of political investment. Stick to the facts and stay out of politics.
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trump is adraft dodger like cheney, when cheney was asked why his excat words were "
I had better things to do"!!! typical arroungence of a pathological LIAR and MURDERER!!!!
I had better things to do"!!! typical arroungence of a pathological LIAR and MURDERER!!!!
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SSgt Christopher Brose
And Clinton wasn't a draft dodger? Or did you just forget to include him in your example?
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COL (Join to see)
Personal attacks aside, this sort of rant is exactly what someone in uniform should not be doing. As a vet and a civilian, you have the voice and can do so. That being said, someone in this race is going to be President. I'm not sure there is anyone I would vote for if I did vote for President. I will stay neutral and enjoy the show.
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PO3 (Join to see)
COL (Join to see) - That mean No. You can have freedom of religion if you only practice it in your room.
An opinion is solely based on did you express it or not. If you can't, that mean you can't have an opinion. :)
As long as you declare it, it is not a conflict of interest. As least that is the definition from Engineering Ethics for "Conflict of interest". If you don't declare it (or express it), now that ethically ... conflict of interest.
See the paradox there if you can't "express it publicly".
An opinion is solely based on did you express it or not. If you can't, that mean you can't have an opinion. :)
As long as you declare it, it is not a conflict of interest. As least that is the definition from Engineering Ethics for "Conflict of interest". If you don't declare it (or express it), now that ethically ... conflict of interest.
See the paradox there if you can't "express it publicly".
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COL (Join to see)
We actually aren't allowed to express it publicly. Not as a member of the service anyway. When you speak as a member of hte military, you are restricted in what you can and cannot say. If you haven't realized that you don't have all the rights of every other citizen, someone needs to tell you what you can't do any more. You don't have the same free speech rights as the rest of America. None of us do. We can be punished for it. These instances here are not in those categories...but they are on the line. More importantly, the military MUST remain apolitical. We cannot be seen as for any one candidate or party. It erodes the reason we exists.
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