Posted on Feb 22, 2018
Is it realistic to believe that a teacher could effectively defend against an active shooter, using an AR-15, armed with only a handgun?
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After the shooting in Florida many people began to say arm the teachers. But they over look that a police officer was there. As a Marine I understand how difficult it is to close on and take an active shooter even with the best training and equipment. During the Dallas shooting 11 police officers was injured and another 6 was killed. Out of all the return fire none actually hit the suspect. Infact the suspect was killed by a remote control robot carrying an explosive. The reason why the suspect wasn't killed by a well aimed handgun shot is because of what we call the fog of war. When the shooting starts panic and confusion set in and the way we deal with it in the military is continually to train for those situations week in and week out. But without a third of the training people are expecting teachers to be able to identify the location of the shooter, know the movement of other armed teachers, know the movement of the innocent students and staff, close on the shooter and fire a well aimed shot without putting any students in further danger. Is that realistic?
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 489
In every case (so far) of a school shooting, the shooter was not a well trained individual but was a "troubled" young man who may have had an initial target in mind but then turned on the mass. The Dallas shooting on the other hand was by a well trained, ex-mil rifleman who intentionally made himself a hard target.
So, is it realistic to believe a teacher could defend against an active shooter? Yes, IF the teacher has had minimal firearms training and IF the teacher isn't trying to be a hero.
So, is it realistic to believe a teacher could defend against an active shooter? Yes, IF the teacher has had minimal firearms training and IF the teacher isn't trying to be a hero.
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Darlene Holt
The Parkland shooter likely didn't have a specific target. He attacked the freshman building of a school he hadn't attended in over a year, so not likely to know a potential target of that population. plus, he'd been idolizing school shooting for a long while. It was thus most likely his initial intent to just hit the masses indiscriminately. Same with Sandy Hook (not likely to have a specific child or teacher in mind given his background). Aside from this I tend to agree with your assessment.
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LTC James McElreath
It appears to be a lot of what ifs! Give me a trained security guard or police officer and the situation can be handled with less what if's!!
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Ever been shot at? when lead starts coming you way, even if not extremely close you focus on that- not shooting innocents and the fruitcake in FL was not bent on suicide.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
Disagree - No disrespect intended but mayhap your MOS leads you to underrate others?
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Yes, it's very realistic. Even if you miss the shooter, you're potentially distracting him from shooting at students and giving them time to get away. And we already know teachers have died placing their bodies between the student and shooters. If teachers are courageous enough to do that, I see no valid reason not to give them the means to protect themselves and take the shooter out. A gun in the hand with no training when lives are on the line is still better than no gun at all.
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LTC James McElreath
Might I ask, what or who ferrets out the most responsible teachers, janitor's etc? What criteria does one use? You do not really know how you would react until the situation presents itself! At least fix the security issues the building presents and then if you are worried then maybe have a school official armed!
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Cpl Mark McMiller
LTC James McElreath - Of course no one knows how they will react until the situation presents itself. But that's irrelevant. By your logic, I guess we also shouldn't make fire extinguishers readily available in buildings because no one knows whether they will use one to put out a fire. The bottom line is that a firearm gives teachers and their students potential that they don't have if unarmed to survive an active shooter situation. If you can't see the common sense in that then you're either a fool or intellectually dishonest. As far as who ferrets out the most responsible teachers, it should be up to the each teacher whether they want to carry a firearm or not. After all, it's their lives that are on the line so they should decide for themselves.
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LTC James McElreath
Excuse me I forgot you had been a marine. I feel for you I guess you can't see the forest for the trees. Your logic does not make since. Corporal It is you that is delusional, open your eyes . Didn't they teach you about tactics in the Marines? Generally a threat assessment is made and then execute a plan based on what you learn! !Big guy as for the fool I think you are a very delusional man and I choose to not tell you who the fool is!
If you are still in the Marines, I hope and pray you have no access to anything important
If you are still in the Marines, I hope and pray you have no access to anything important
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The real scenario should be what are the risks to an armed teacher when law enforcement enter a school in an active shooter situation with little intel. I wouldn't want to be spotted holding on to a firearm in a crowded building with officers' adrenalin flowing.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
SSG Ray Elliott - Hasn't been done yet. And there HAVE been enough school shootings, right?
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
SSgt Joseph Baptist - Well if a plainclothes cop is shooting up a school he should go down too.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
SSgt Joseph Baptist - No argument there either.
I'm assuming we both mean in all cases its a nut job.
Fratricide is a concern even if all are wearing the same uniform.
I was an Army Scout (retired 93) and coming back was often
just as dangerous many times as going out.
I'm assuming we both mean in all cases its a nut job.
Fratricide is a concern even if all are wearing the same uniform.
I was an Army Scout (retired 93) and coming back was often
just as dangerous many times as going out.
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CPT William Jones
Teachers to hide with students behind locked doors not running around. Cops don’t bust down doors. All friendliest stay safe. Bad guys get caught/killed all students safe.
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Depends on the size of the hand gun, me I wouldn't have anything smaller than a .44. Might have to shot through the door.
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SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
1stSgt Nelson Kerr - had that discussion earlier with the assistant chief of police this morning, I told if need be I'd use a .22 Mag. revolver.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth - M My preferec would be a 45ACP pistol or revolver with hollowpoint rounds to minimize penetration, Of if they are still around something like Glaser safety slugs,
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The suspect in the Dallas shooting was a Army Reserve Veteran of Afghanistan and even though he had rifle training he was being very selective with his targets (only shooting at Police) and in my view was not all that great with his aim. He was in a 3rd floor elevated position (parking garage) surrounded by concrete for protection from return fire.......almost an elevated bunker. Because of the echo when he fired it took Police a while to determine where he was located. Another point, a number of the BLM marchers had various assault rifles on them but didn't use them to suppress the shooter, they quickly handed their weapons over to Police because they were afraid the would turn on them as potential suspects.
Also, the Dallas Shooter was discharged from the USAR due to mental issues. Something about stealing his ex-girlfriends underwear in Afghanistan and hiding it. His former girlfriend reported him and he was on the next flight out of there it read like. USAR never reported to local police or even to his Parents they discharged him for mental reasons. He was living with his Parents at the time of the shooting and they were surprised to hear about events in Afghanistan for the first time from the press.
Texas Governor was on FOX News today and stated a lot of school districts in the state of Texas already allow teachers to be armed under the concealed carry law. So he stated it was nothing new for some Texas school districts. He stated not all Texas school districts allow it though. He said it has been allowed for several years so far.
Also, the Dallas Shooter was discharged from the USAR due to mental issues. Something about stealing his ex-girlfriends underwear in Afghanistan and hiding it. His former girlfriend reported him and he was on the next flight out of there it read like. USAR never reported to local police or even to his Parents they discharged him for mental reasons. He was living with his Parents at the time of the shooting and they were surprised to hear about events in Afghanistan for the first time from the press.
Texas Governor was on FOX News today and stated a lot of school districts in the state of Texas already allow teachers to be armed under the concealed carry law. So he stated it was nothing new for some Texas school districts. He stated not all Texas school districts allow it though. He said it has been allowed for several years so far.
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LCpl Timothy McCain
The Dallas shooter final position was in the parking garage. Because there's video of him trading fire with a police officer before going into the parking garage.
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SPC Erich Guenther
LCpl Timothy McCain - I don't think he was ever at street level though. Yes they had a skywalk from the parking garage into the school (or wherever else he was). He moved around while he fired and thats another reason why it took a while for police to pinpoint him and they initially thought there were two shooters. What surprises me the most is the guy seemed to have everything going for him school and financially speaking. He lived in nice $250-300k suburban Dallas house with his Parents in a nice suburb. The USAR gave him an Honorable Discharge only the discharge code indicated a mental issue initially..........not sure who found that out and tracked it down.
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Trigger to trigger, probably not. What an armed player (teachers, in this case) would provide in a potential active shooter scenario is a deterrent. All of these recent mass shootings happened in areas that were assumed to be gun-free zones. The shooter was not expecting anyone in the schools or the churches to be armed, and none of them wanted a shootout, only targets. If any of those cowards thought they would encounter return fire, none of them would have done it.
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