Posted on May 12, 2016
Is it time for the Military to allow such things as haircuts, hands in pockets, and beards?
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Look at the role models each Branch Loves, Marines: in some pictures had his hands in his pockets, and no haircut, Chesty Puller, and General Patton, had his hands in his pockets and no haircut as well, SF wears beards over Seas and have their hands in their pockets. Does it really detract from performance? Is it really a Disipline problem? Could it increase unit Morale?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 57
On page one of the USAF squadron commander's handbook (long ago) it said "Be unreasonable." There's a very good reason for these things. A lot of things the military does are unreasonable--for a reason. The short hair, clean face, pressed uniform and shined shoes are unreasonable. Is there a real reason the working day begins at oh dark thirty? It's unreasonable. In my day, Marines were not allowed to carry an umbrella in the rain. So why is it like that?
Because in war, a lot of things very necessary to the mission will sound unreasonable, even to an experienced warrior. We must ensure that our people will not question every order they get. They need to be comfortable with doing unreasonable things.
Because in war, a lot of things very necessary to the mission will sound unreasonable, even to an experienced warrior. We must ensure that our people will not question every order they get. They need to be comfortable with doing unreasonable things.
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SFC (Join to see)
In BCT (1970) The first time it rained the Drill Sgts told us it doesn't rain in the Army , it rains on the Army.
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Sgt Dale Briggs
There it is in a nutshell, and you signed up for this knowing what was in front of you, you weren’t drafted. You want to rebel wear red socks.
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SSG (Join to see) It is about discipline. Having long hair, beards and hands in pockets will not increase morale. When you are out in the bush, where you can not get a haircut, shave, etc, different rules apply. It is not time (at least for the Marine Corps), to allow these things when in garrison.
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Sgt (Join to see)
SrA (Join to see) - If you do not like military rules, get out where you can do your own thing.
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Sgt (Join to see)
SGT James Cowan - My point is that the military or any civilian job that you go to has rules that need to be followed. If you do not like the rules, go somewhere else.
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Sgt Dale Briggs
I still look sideways ay guys who put their hands in their pockets, it’s been 45 years and I haven’t done that. As the Sgt mentioned above your in the military, you volunteered, the rules are different, if you don’t like it when your times up you leave. It’s not for everyone, but it’s beyond any simple act the point is compliance to orders.
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SFC (Join to see)
While thinking this over for myself, I'm sure that the SF, Seabees grow their facial hair more out of necessity than want to. 1) to conceal their identity somewhat. 2) To look more like locale indigenous people.
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As hard as I try, I'm still guilty of the hands in the pocket violation from time to time.
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SPC Burt Epps
Chief, you must have missed a CWO class or something. I didn't even think that Chief's owned headgear, and I've never, ever, ever, seen a Chief in a PT formation. Come to think of it, I've never seen a chief without a cup of coffee either. We're gonna need to send you for remedial Chief training, Sir. LMAO
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SGT Kyle Johnson
We did a project in Kabul, won't discuss what it was, (nothing to do with flight) but there must have been 50 CW's running around. All you heard was "Damn, talk about too many chiefs and not enough Indians" We are not sure where they came from or where they disappeared too.. but they were there for abut a week... working like man men on a mission..
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CW4 (Join to see)
SGT Kyle Johnson - Damn 50, a lot of brain power and ego's floating around, but I am 100% certain that they got stuff done and whatever it was they were doing, it got done right.
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SGT Kyle Johnson
CW4 (Join to see) I was the Project Manager, SME (Subject Matter Expert, NO LAUGHING!) on the project and they made me look like I was in grade school. Always knew Warrants were the best in their fields.. but damn.. We just got out of the way. It was awarded the Contracting Project of the Year in 2009. With out those CWs it would have not gotten off the ground. We won't discuss the ego side.. ever tried to herd cats?
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There is a huge misconception about the SF community and the presence of facial hair. Those relaxed grooming standards are about the cultural values of our indigenous partner forces. Special forces are allowed to have facial hair as it appeals to the cultural norms of our host nation allies. In garrison, our regular place of business, we need to maintain a professional appearance. It's also about the cultural norms and values of the people paying our salaries. They expect a professional looking military.
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When I was a SPC, I walked in to the office area where 3 warrant officers worked. I put my hands in my pocket and walked from desk to desk to make sure they could all see me. One raised his head and turned to me "SPC Shim, What are you doing with your hands in your pockets". I replied "Practicing to be a Warrant Officer". And then I did a bunch of pushups.
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Oh no we must have the groomig standard. Otherwise, we'd be forced to evaluate Soldiers solely on their level of competence. God forbid that ever happens.
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Yes, all of the above detract from the military appearance. Why do SF and SEALs wear beards in Afghanistan? To adapt their appearance into the culture of the people they are trying to help. Everything that the military does, no matter how nonsensical it may appear, has a reason. If you will do a bit of research and thinking, you can answer a lot of questions yourself.
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I don't think it matters if Chesty Puller, Patton or Audie Murphy roamed the battlefield with long hair and beards, they were courageous and still good examples and in WWII the Soldiers lived rough, on the line for extended periods with little hygienic facilities available.
Long hair is easier for lice and other critters to take up quarters so that's the real reason for the military preference for short hair.
Hands in Pockets; still can't put my finger on this one other than it makes you look like your at ease in the environment your in, and we all know its way better to look uptight and stiff at all times. But rules are rules. I still don't put my hands in my pockets .
Beards fell out of favor due to chemical weapons and masking seal issues. The SF with their Combat Beards came back in favor because the middle eastern culture prefers them and if your trying to fit in and gain trust it helps.
Increased moral; maybe until you get lice which sucks or gassed which also sucks really bad. Or you can't get your hand out of your pocket in time to catch a grenade or miss saluting someone or fall and bust your teeth out. All of which could suck at some level.
Discipline problem, depends on the situation and level of potential sucky-ness.
Chesty Puller was the original Chuck Norris he could'a worn Bermuda shorts Gucci sandals and and a Hawaiian print shirt and still reaped havoc on the enemy.
Long hair is easier for lice and other critters to take up quarters so that's the real reason for the military preference for short hair.
Hands in Pockets; still can't put my finger on this one other than it makes you look like your at ease in the environment your in, and we all know its way better to look uptight and stiff at all times. But rules are rules. I still don't put my hands in my pockets .
Beards fell out of favor due to chemical weapons and masking seal issues. The SF with their Combat Beards came back in favor because the middle eastern culture prefers them and if your trying to fit in and gain trust it helps.
Increased moral; maybe until you get lice which sucks or gassed which also sucks really bad. Or you can't get your hand out of your pocket in time to catch a grenade or miss saluting someone or fall and bust your teeth out. All of which could suck at some level.
Discipline problem, depends on the situation and level of potential sucky-ness.
Chesty Puller was the original Chuck Norris he could'a worn Bermuda shorts Gucci sandals and and a Hawaiian print shirt and still reaped havoc on the enemy.
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SGT David T.
SSG (Join to see) - I am not sure how well a promask will fit like this but hey at least it's epic lol
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