Posted on May 17, 2016
Is it within the ability of my commander to lift an HA flag code early in order for me to drop a volunteer recruiting packet?
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I recently had an incident where I lost my bearing and acted disrespectfully towards a senior NCO. I received a company grade article 15. I am currently in my punishment phase with an HA adverse action flag code. I recently spoke with my commander about lifting the flag code early in order to drop a recruiting packet. Is this something he is legally capable of doing?
Recruiting
Article 15
CPT
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 7
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Company grade? Yes, it's fully within his purview to approve this.
HOWEVER, you are still in hot water. You lost your mind to the point that a SNCO and/or First Sergeant couldn't rein you in, and it was bad enough that the CO wanted to spank the pee-pee of a SERGEANT. And now you want permission to apply for a prestigious position with little to no supervision and loads of young people - when you can't even handle yourself around supervisors?? You want your CO to let you out of your punishment after they had to go through the BS of imposing UCMJ admin actions on you?
A CO would NEVER approve such a request, and you would be a fool to even request it.
My advice: get through the punishment, act like God on Water for twelve full months to prove to the Command that you aren't a turd, and after everyone has forgotten your lack of bearing and inability to maintain control, THEN apply for Recruiting duty.
HOWEVER, you are still in hot water. You lost your mind to the point that a SNCO and/or First Sergeant couldn't rein you in, and it was bad enough that the CO wanted to spank the pee-pee of a SERGEANT. And now you want permission to apply for a prestigious position with little to no supervision and loads of young people - when you can't even handle yourself around supervisors?? You want your CO to let you out of your punishment after they had to go through the BS of imposing UCMJ admin actions on you?
A CO would NEVER approve such a request, and you would be a fool to even request it.
My advice: get through the punishment, act like God on Water for twelve full months to prove to the Command that you aren't a turd, and after everyone has forgotten your lack of bearing and inability to maintain control, THEN apply for Recruiting duty.
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SGT (Join to see)
Dear Master Chief,
I appreciate you taking the time to respond seeing as how ridiculous this may sound to someone in your position without knowledge of what happened. I was limited on how much I could explain so not all the details were included as to why I did what I did. I have been with my current unit for over four years. I have always made it a priority to excel not only at my job but at whatever tasks I am given. To the point where I am approached before most others senior to me. Respect has always been a priority and all of my superiors know this, including my CO. Since the incident I have sought the counsel of numerous SNCO's on the subject of what happened and all but the one it happened with have said they don't know how I handled the situation as well as I did. When it comes to typical day to day business there is no reason that I personally would excuse disrespect towards a SNCO. When the situation directly effects the well being of my family that is another story entirely. I will not go any further then saying I was being forced to make a decision that removed my wife as a priority and was being told it was a necessary sacrifice. Whether or not this changes your view on the situation, I felt the need to explain. Thank you again for your time. I hope you have a blessed night, Master Chief.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond seeing as how ridiculous this may sound to someone in your position without knowledge of what happened. I was limited on how much I could explain so not all the details were included as to why I did what I did. I have been with my current unit for over four years. I have always made it a priority to excel not only at my job but at whatever tasks I am given. To the point where I am approached before most others senior to me. Respect has always been a priority and all of my superiors know this, including my CO. Since the incident I have sought the counsel of numerous SNCO's on the subject of what happened and all but the one it happened with have said they don't know how I handled the situation as well as I did. When it comes to typical day to day business there is no reason that I personally would excuse disrespect towards a SNCO. When the situation directly effects the well being of my family that is another story entirely. I will not go any further then saying I was being forced to make a decision that removed my wife as a priority and was being told it was a necessary sacrifice. Whether or not this changes your view on the situation, I felt the need to explain. Thank you again for your time. I hope you have a blessed night, Master Chief.
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MCPO (Join to see)
That doesn't matter a damn.
The CO had the option of taking you to the non-smoking side of the Long Green Table - or let it slide - and he chose the admin punishment. Any mitigating circumstances or witnesses or character references were ineffectual, and the CO saw fit to hammer you. It was your option to request a Court Martial, and you chose to admit to your offense and accept the punishment instead.
The possibility that this SNCO had some dealings with your family affairs is totally moot - because the CO popped you - AND the evidence to the contrary wasn't enough to sway their decision. I've seen Art-15s tossed in mid-session because of mitigating evidence and character references... and it didn't happen in this case, so the evidence submitted by the investigating officer must have been damning.
My advice stands - be a good troop for a year and THEN request the billet.
The CO had the option of taking you to the non-smoking side of the Long Green Table - or let it slide - and he chose the admin punishment. Any mitigating circumstances or witnesses or character references were ineffectual, and the CO saw fit to hammer you. It was your option to request a Court Martial, and you chose to admit to your offense and accept the punishment instead.
The possibility that this SNCO had some dealings with your family affairs is totally moot - because the CO popped you - AND the evidence to the contrary wasn't enough to sway their decision. I've seen Art-15s tossed in mid-session because of mitigating evidence and character references... and it didn't happen in this case, so the evidence submitted by the investigating officer must have been damning.
My advice stands - be a good troop for a year and THEN request the billet.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I agree with MCPO Motyka. Heed his advice and put the event behind you. I would add that as soon as your flag is lifted, you might consider transferring to another unit for a change of scenery and fresh start. Not knowing all the details of your incident, I would assume that that you didn't give your chain of command the opportunity to resolve the issue you had with this senior NCO. I would suggest enrolling in an anger management program, worse case scenario you may learn some coping techniques you can share with your subordinates in the future.
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Yes, the CO can do that, I'm not sure that he would though. You would have to have been completely on point and the 1SG will also have a say. Even if the NCO in question was a complete dirt bag you have to respect the rank, especially in front of Soldiers. If there is an issue with the NCO you can take it up the chain that way.
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This would be a time when I would recommend that you consult your Chain of Command, and maybe even that guy that you had the option of using when you were read your Article 15...a LAWYER. But first let your Squad Leader and Platoon Sergeant go thru your First Sergeant to see if they are willing to do this...If you do not, and you opt to go over their heads, I suspect that you may be in for an infinitely more horrible time than you want.
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Some very good comments. BLUF it is going to be hard for you to drop a packet with an AR15 in your records. And having just left command I am not sure I would if I could as it would send a bad climate in the unit. I would focus on putting some time between the incident and the packet. As I would not remove the packet early nor sign the recruiting packet. I know it's not what you wanted to hear but this forum is supposed to be for honest feedback. I do wish you luck.
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All I can tell you is that the AR-15 has to be documented in the recruiting volunteer packet. Summarized have to be listed too. While a co. grade may not be an automatic disqualifier, it will be a factor in whether or not USAREC approves it. They are very selective, especially in times when the recruiting mission is low. The fact you got yours as a SGT, was recent, and what it was for, will likely factor negatively in the decision. Just being honest based on my experience in USAREC. You might be better off waiting a year or two then submitting it. That way you won't be on record as a previously rejected applicant. Good Luck
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SGT (Join to see)
Would it make a difference if my chain of command still put recruiting as a recommendation for broadening assignment on my ncoer after the incidence happened?
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SFC J Fullerton
No, I don't think so. Just about every E5 is going to have recruiter or drill sgt on their NCOER for future positions, so that is not relevant. Part of the packet (or used to be) is a commanders evaluation that asks specific questions about the SM, as it relates to traits needed for NCOs in recruiting. Time management, ability to plan and execute tasks without supervision, meet deadlines, personal appearance, mannerisms, etc. That carries more weight than the future positions on the NCOER. Everything else on it will matter though.
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Legally if Company Grade yes as he is your commander. Will he? Really depends as it could set bad example that he lifts flags early so people can get away with anything and NCOs are not supported.
Understand every situation is different and how early are you talking about?
However, work through chain of command. And also, like others said try to correct self to avoid further punishment or incidents. Is the incident going to be on NCOER. Might be better to wait on packet and serve your time.
Understand every situation is different and how early are you talking about?
However, work through chain of command. And also, like others said try to correct self to avoid further punishment or incidents. Is the incident going to be on NCOER. Might be better to wait on packet and serve your time.
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What was his initial feedback? I'm not a lawyer, but this is the type of stuff you just tell someone no or sit on. In your situation I would be a lot more concerned with doing everything possible to avoid a referred ncoer during a draw down. We all make mistakes and you can recover. Avoid the referred ncoer and look to pcs. I wish you luck, but the Army is very unforgiving right now and it would be prudent to prepare yourself for a civilian career.
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