Posted on Mar 7, 2022
Is my NCO allowed to refuse to give my CAC back?
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He asked if he could pull my CAC so that he could use my computer. I gave him verbal authorization and asked for my CAC. He told me he is going to hold on to it jokingly. He stated I could have it back when I did something for him. I was busy doing something that was of high priority. I respectfully asked for my CAC card back and he told it was unsecured so he’s keeping it. After about two hours of constantly asking for it back he still had not given it back. I went back to my work station and pulled his CAC because it was actually unsecured. I went to him and asked for my CAC back in exchange for his because it was a serious issue when he had a joking demeanor. He told me that I can not touch his CAC because he is an NCO and gave me a “direct order” to give it back. I dropped the CAC and went straight to my NCOIC to report the incident. Now the NCOIC is forcing the NCO to recommend me for UCMJ even though the NCO admitted that he was just hazing me. He said it was just a joke and did not realize I was being serious. UCMJ for violating a direct order from a Non Commissioned Officer. What can I do in this situation?
CAC
UCMJ
JAG
Posted 3 y ago
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Your commander is going to laugh in the face of your NCOIC if they actually try to recommend you for UCMJ.
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SGM (Join to see)
He might even direct the NCO to give a class on "direct" orders and "lawful" orders.
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Your NCO sounds like a dick for starters.
You were in the right because he left HIS CAC unsecured. You didn't as it sounds like you were right there next to the computer and he just wanted to use it. So you asked him to hand you your card so he could use it.
Your NCOIC also sounds like a dick. Recommend you for UCMJ? I mean should you have dropped it probably not. I'm not saying the attitude was unwarranted...
I highly doubt anyone is recommending your for UCMJ and your commander would laugh them out the door if they brought this to him/her. Your 1SG should laugh it out the door too.
That sounds like a lot of counterproductive leadership (what the Army used to call toxic leadership). Did you get your CAC back?
You were in the right because he left HIS CAC unsecured. You didn't as it sounds like you were right there next to the computer and he just wanted to use it. So you asked him to hand you your card so he could use it.
Your NCOIC also sounds like a dick. Recommend you for UCMJ? I mean should you have dropped it probably not. I'm not saying the attitude was unwarranted...
I highly doubt anyone is recommending your for UCMJ and your commander would laugh them out the door if they brought this to him/her. Your 1SG should laugh it out the door too.
That sounds like a lot of counterproductive leadership (what the Army used to call toxic leadership). Did you get your CAC back?
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SPC (Join to see)
Should I have dropped it, probably not. But the moment rank and “direct orders” got involved is when I escalated it. The person I escalated it to is apparently the one who wants to UCMJ me for it. It’s almost as if I just let my NCO pick on me in front of everyone I wouldn’t be worrying about this. I got my CAC back after about 3 hours from my NCOIC. He took me in the back and had me walk him through what happened. He gave me the CAC back and made it seem like it wasn’t a big deal. I got slapped with the counseling statement the next day. First counseling ever and I have less than 120 days left in army. I don’t want this to affect me ETSing in any way. My First sergeant also has it out for me because I don’t want to go to promotion board while I’m out processing. So i can genuinely see this getting pushed through.
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
SPC (Join to see) - Dropping it wasn't that disrespectful but that would be the only thing that they could attempt to use against you.
Counseling statements aren't a big deal. I've had like 2 negative counselings in my 18 years.
It's not going to affect you ETS. You are not get any UCMJ for this. Only the commander can submit UCMJ and unless your commander is also inept, there's no way they would submit it to JAG. And JAG would laugh it back to them.
It doesn't matter if it does go to JAG - they aren't going to take it seriously. There's literally not an article that they could use. It's barely disrespecting a NCO with you dropping the card. I'd call that barely disrespect. I would have said "oh sorry it slipped."
I wouldn't worry about it. They're the ones who fucked up not you.
Counseling statements aren't a big deal. I've had like 2 negative counselings in my 18 years.
It's not going to affect you ETS. You are not get any UCMJ for this. Only the commander can submit UCMJ and unless your commander is also inept, there's no way they would submit it to JAG. And JAG would laugh it back to them.
It doesn't matter if it does go to JAG - they aren't going to take it seriously. There's literally not an article that they could use. It's barely disrespecting a NCO with you dropping the card. I'd call that barely disrespect. I would have said "oh sorry it slipped."
I wouldn't worry about it. They're the ones who fucked up not you.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SPC (Join to see) First counseling ever or first negative counseling ever?
If it your first counseling ever, there is a whole lot more wrong with the entire unit than just this incident.
If it your first counseling ever, there is a whole lot more wrong with the entire unit than just this incident.
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
SFC Casey O'Mally - I assumed he meant negative counseling but yes that would be bad if it was first counseling ever...
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This is completely insane if true. There is no merit for UCMJ, again if the accounts are true. You need to get an office call with your PLT Sgt., platoon leader and the 1SG. This will give the 1SG what they need to take a more directed action toward these Sgt.’s (not NCO’s).
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
You should never direct anyone Senior to you to do anything. Instead you should have simply asked and be patient. If you were condescending in front of his other Soldiers that is not good. I would still take this to the 1SG and CoSPC (Join to see)
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SPC (Join to see)
I meant that the NCO directed me to give it back. I never directed him to do anything. It’s the part where I dropped his CAC they are honing in on. I asked respectfully for my CAC in return for his, using proper customs and courtesies. He then said “this is a direct order give me my CAC” and I dropped the CAC and said “I see this situation has escalated I’m going to have to talk to rank name.”CSM Darieus ZaGara
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
Not so good. I would speak to them both and express how you were frustrated and really wanted to get to work. That you know you were wrong and ask for corrective training in lieu of UCMJ. YOUR CALL. SPC (Join to see)
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
SPC (Join to see) - You have one screwed up unit...wow. IF this gets to the desk of the commander, they are going to laugh it out the door. IF it made it past the commander to JAG, JAG is going to laugh it back to the commander.
You are free to go to JAG to get any legal advice though. I would definitely run it by them. There's absolutely nothing you did that would warrant UCMJ. The NCOs in this situation are all in the wrong.
You are free to go to JAG to get any legal advice though. I would definitely run it by them. There's absolutely nothing you did that would warrant UCMJ. The NCOs in this situation are all in the wrong.
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