Posted on May 3, 2015
Is the age of effective peaceful protest over? What are the root causes of our current civil unrest?
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This brief debate piece poses two interesting perspectives:
http://www.stripes.com/opinion/is-effective-nonviolent-protest-still-possible-in-the-21st-century-1.343631
http://www.stripes.com/opinion/is-effective-nonviolent-protest-still-possible-in-the-21st-century-1.343631
Protest
Baltimore
Ferguson
Riots
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
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There is some truth in all I've read in this discussion thread, however, the one who commented on "opportunists" seems to be reaching the root of the problem.
Political opportunists are exploiting every contentious moment to set groups and classes of citizens (and non-citizens) against each other. They then pretend to be concerned with resolving conflict when, in fact, they take advantage of them to gain control and power.
Political opportunists are exploiting every contentious moment to set groups and classes of citizens (and non-citizens) against each other. They then pretend to be concerned with resolving conflict when, in fact, they take advantage of them to gain control and power.
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I think the short debate you linked to has great utility in describing - or at least pointing to - the root cause. From the second speaker:
"At some point, our liberal friends and fellow citizens need to take a good, hard look not only at the “repressive regime” they themselves endorse and helped build, but the culture that’s festering around it."
Exactly, but even this doesn't go far enough. There is an actual industry - people earn their livelihood from it - that has arisen around fighting the "repressive regime" and there are a significant number of politicians who base their incumbency on perpetuating and exploiting the energy generated by "fighting the repressive regime." This all despite the fact that this same industry and set of politicians is fighting tooth and nail to protect the "repressive regime" where/when-ever it comes under attack, in addition to advancing both the reach and the repressiveness of the regime whenever they perceive an opportunity to do so. For one reason: the "repressive regime" is the source of their power, influence, and wealth.
From a purely rational self-interest / economic perspective, why would we expect the leaders of this industry and associated politicians to behave in any other manner?
And we need to be honest with ourselves here: those of us who believe in individual liberty, self-sufficiency, accountability, and hard work are now the **minority** in the U.S.
I don't have an answer to solving this, but think it starts with understanding we are indeed engaged (or not, in most cases) in a struggle for the future of the county we thought we lived in.
"At some point, our liberal friends and fellow citizens need to take a good, hard look not only at the “repressive regime” they themselves endorse and helped build, but the culture that’s festering around it."
Exactly, but even this doesn't go far enough. There is an actual industry - people earn their livelihood from it - that has arisen around fighting the "repressive regime" and there are a significant number of politicians who base their incumbency on perpetuating and exploiting the energy generated by "fighting the repressive regime." This all despite the fact that this same industry and set of politicians is fighting tooth and nail to protect the "repressive regime" where/when-ever it comes under attack, in addition to advancing both the reach and the repressiveness of the regime whenever they perceive an opportunity to do so. For one reason: the "repressive regime" is the source of their power, influence, and wealth.
From a purely rational self-interest / economic perspective, why would we expect the leaders of this industry and associated politicians to behave in any other manner?
And we need to be honest with ourselves here: those of us who believe in individual liberty, self-sufficiency, accountability, and hard work are now the **minority** in the U.S.
I don't have an answer to solving this, but think it starts with understanding we are indeed engaged (or not, in most cases) in a struggle for the future of the county we thought we lived in.
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MSG (Join to see)
I can not argue with the idea that there is a profit to be made in every conflict, domestic ones included. I also believe that elements of our current systems can have a polarizing effect in the guise of equalization.
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Lt Col Fred Marheine, PMP
I'm 'hearing' your effort to be balanced in your response, but admit I'm beyond any attempt at balance any longer as I believe the evidence is incontrovertible in supporting the conclusion that creating an enduring environment of discontent, anger, rioting, occupying, etc. is, in fact, the desired end state for a certain segment of the political class and their associates. The willful, deliberate disregard for objective fact / knowledge in choosing to pursue specific policies coupled with the never-ending rhetoric and invective they communicate is simply impossible to ignore or explain away as mistakes or failure to anticipate second and third-order effects.
It is deliberate and is achieving it's intended purpose (i.e. perpetuate their power, influence, and wealth). In the interests of full disclosure and owning my opinions, I'll label this segment liberals/progressives - a bin in which I put most Democrats and a great many Republicans.
It is deliberate and is achieving it's intended purpose (i.e. perpetuate their power, influence, and wealth). In the interests of full disclosure and owning my opinions, I'll label this segment liberals/progressives - a bin in which I put most Democrats and a great many Republicans.
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CPT Jack Durish
Please, let's stop calling those on the Left "liberals". There is nothing liberal or "liberty-loving" about them. Liberty is an anathema to them. They obviously believe that there are some (elite) who are more fit to make decisions for the unwashed masses (in flyover country) and are justified in telling any lie (to create false crises) to gain control.
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Lt Col Fred Marheine, PMP
Well said CPT Jack Durish , though I tried to widen the scope beyond "the left" as I don't think it's limited to them. I'm open to suggestions for something more appropriate.... Perhaps "Hobbesists" or "Leviathists"?
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No justice, no peace. That is the often used phrase by many of these rioters both violent and non violent. It is not just a phrase, it is a threat. A threat to anyone that does not give them what they want. That want may change depending on the circumstance/issue but it is not justice. They want justice as they describe it, not the way free societies with legal systems describe it. They want immediate verdicts with no trials, they want their outcomes only.
The no peace, well, that is the threat. If you don't give us what we want we are coming after you. That might be physical, it might be economic or just general security (we will burn this place down). When you hear that phrase, know that if you have worked hard, played by the rules, put together a decent life for you an your family, they feel entitled to some of what you have.
They want their version of justice which is not blind or fair, only mob rule and they want what you (and others) have earned. They feel it is fine to issue a threat to free people that you will give in, or else pay the consequences. We would do well to end this mentality before it mushrooms into a real problem.
The left in this country has promised them much over the decades and have not delivered because what they promised is undeliverable. You will not reach economic happiness and security at the end of the government tether. That reality is unfolding before us.
The no peace, well, that is the threat. If you don't give us what we want we are coming after you. That might be physical, it might be economic or just general security (we will burn this place down). When you hear that phrase, know that if you have worked hard, played by the rules, put together a decent life for you an your family, they feel entitled to some of what you have.
They want their version of justice which is not blind or fair, only mob rule and they want what you (and others) have earned. They feel it is fine to issue a threat to free people that you will give in, or else pay the consequences. We would do well to end this mentality before it mushrooms into a real problem.
The left in this country has promised them much over the decades and have not delivered because what they promised is undeliverable. You will not reach economic happiness and security at the end of the government tether. That reality is unfolding before us.
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I think we as a society can still have peaceful protesting, but I think that somehow the "entitled" generation will take a while to learn what peaceful protesting really is.
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MSG (Join to see)
How do we influence change? How do we offer a different perspective in contrast to entitlement?
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We can't be sure but it looks as if there may be some truth to the statement that , here in America there is in fact a 'Government With-In the Government' and it is responsible for the worst of the worst situations and policies presented to and inflicted upon American Society. That includes Domestic-Espionage against almost any citizen that mentions 911 or any of the WAR's for profit that we have had to endure. The looting of minerals and energy around the world in the name of Free-Trade. The poor economic conditions being over looked by the American Mass Media controlled by citizens of other countries (Duel-Citizens). GMO food and crops. Chem-Trails are real , Wall-Street bonus amounts to more money than the bottom 45 percent working poor earn all year. More American business went under first time in 30 years than stay afloat recent past years. President signs 'BILL's' into LAW but never reads them ACA. So there are many points of mismanagement but none greater that have taken place during the term in office of the current and prior President. It has nothing to do with the citizens partaking of civil unrest. they were manipulated into the position they are in by a corrupt system. And it's going to get even uglier.
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Sgt (Join to see)
No i'm saying that i see and read about many a 'Dual' citizen in high positions of authority in the federal government and i don't like or trust them , not a bit. Why would i.
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Sgt (Join to see)
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_911_107.htm
A short list of our friendly , average , everyday 'DUAL' citizen.
A short list of our friendly , average , everyday 'DUAL' citizen.
Israel Did 9/11 - All The Necessary Proofs!
Larry Silverstein - Explains his reason for purchasing the towers as "I felt a compelling urge to own them." Larry had breakfast in "Windows on the World" restaurant every single morning.
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Sgt (Join to see)
https://www.facebook.com/notes/we-are-all-vittorio-arrigoni/list-of-politicians-with-israeli-dual-citizenship-/ [login to see] 5092
No comment is that because you need some more information , well OK. Here it is. So now i ask you are Dual Citizens a security risk. It's off topic but related to the question you asked me.
No comment is that because you need some more information , well OK. Here it is. So now i ask you are Dual Citizens a security risk. It's off topic but related to the question you asked me.
List of Politicians with Israeli Dual Citizenship -
Unless we are Native American Indians, all Americans have their origins in some other country. Both of my parents were from England. They were proud to be "British" but they were most proud of achieving their American citizenship. Sure, we had pictures of the Queen and nick-nacks with the Union Jack on them. My mother even celebrated the traditional 4 o'clock tea time and was good at making Yorkshire Pudding. In the late 60's my older brother...
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Root cause? Opportunity.
Opportunists attempt to exploit a situation for their own personal gain/greed. Maybe smashing windows and stealing Jordan's is a way to protest...I'm just not informed how it is.
Opportunists attempt to exploit a situation for their own personal gain/greed. Maybe smashing windows and stealing Jordan's is a way to protest...I'm just not informed how it is.
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MSG (Join to see)
Certainly a factor, SGM Matthew Quick, but perhaps we need to get even deeper. What situations, factors, circumstances lead to the point where so many would be willing to be so destructive?
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SGM Matthew Quick
I don't think opportunists need to be examined on a deeper level...these people know right from wrong; they choose wrong.
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'That’s an illegal order': veterans challenge Trump's officers in Portland
Two veterans asked federal agents if they understood their oath to defend the constitution and why they weren’t honoring their oath of office.
David said the officers’ response Saturday night to a largely peaceful crowd was completely disproportionate. But he said, it was also clear that they were not trained for this type of situation.
“They have no tactical cohesion to what they’re doing,” he said. “Duston and I are vets. We can tell what’s going on with these guys. There was no sort of command. They were running around and they were scared.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/24/portland-trump-order-federal-officers-veterans-protests?CMP=share_btn_tw
Two veterans asked federal agents if they understood their oath to defend the constitution and why they weren’t honoring their oath of office.
David said the officers’ response Saturday night to a largely peaceful crowd was completely disproportionate. But he said, it was also clear that they were not trained for this type of situation.
“They have no tactical cohesion to what they’re doing,” he said. “Duston and I are vets. We can tell what’s going on with these guys. There was no sort of command. They were running around and they were scared.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/24/portland-trump-order-federal-officers-veterans-protests?CMP=share_btn_tw
'That’s an illegal order': veterans challenge Trump's officers in Portland
Two veterans asked federal agents if they understood their oath to defend the constitution and why they weren’t honoring their oath of office
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"Trump likes walls - we're gonna give him walls."
Portland’s man of steel and Navy vet is now calling for Walls of Veterans to come out and support #BlackLivesMatter
At least 6 #WallofVets group have started up to defend Black Lives and defend our cities from Trump’s invasion. Spread the word support these veterans!
DC: @wallofvetsdc
LA: @wallofvets
Austin: @wallofvetsaust1
Portland: @PdxVets
Vegas: @VetsWallVegas
Seattle: @VetsSea
https://twitter.com/i/status/ [login to see] 28459264
Portland’s man of steel and Navy vet is now calling for Walls of Veterans to come out and support #BlackLivesMatter
At least 6 #WallofVets group have started up to defend Black Lives and defend our cities from Trump’s invasion. Spread the word support these veterans!
DC: @wallofvetsdc
LA: @wallofvets
Austin: @wallofvetsaust1
Portland: @PdxVets
Vegas: @VetsWallVegas
Seattle: @VetsSea
https://twitter.com/i/status/ [login to see] 28459264
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