Posted on Jul 25, 2017
Is the awarding of the Meritorious Service Medal being watered down due to lack of standardization across the services?
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I recently attended an Air Force Boot Camp Graduation and I saw an Air Force SSgt (E-5) and an Army SSgt (E-6) each wearing an Meritorious Service Medal (Both with less than 12 years service). Now I know there are some difference between branches of service, but this was very surprising considering in the Marine Corps there is a very high standard required to receive the award. Opinions please.
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 372
During my active time in the Army I saw the award go to retiring commanders for their time in command. I never saw this award to lower enlisted rates for their work. They were lucky to receive an Army Commendation Medal for three years or more of excellent service and work. In 17 years of service in the Air Guard and Air Force Reserve I never saw a Meritorious Service Medal awarded.
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Awards are odd things.
As a lieutenant in the mid-1980s, I deployed from Panama on missions all over Central America -- frequently operating on my own and with no direct supervision. At the end of my three-year tour, all of the officers over me had already rotated out and I had to go to the Brigade XO, hat in hand, asking for an award. I was told to write myself up and ended up with a simple ARCOM.
My next assignment was doing staff work back at the school house (Ft. Huachuca). At the end of two years, I was shocked to be handed an MSM for essentially coming to work everyday.
Had my efforts been honestly recognized on the basis of merit, the two awards should have been reversed. In reality, I think they were awarded on the basis of time in service and rank. Lieutenants get ARCOMs; Captains get MSMs.
As a lieutenant in the mid-1980s, I deployed from Panama on missions all over Central America -- frequently operating on my own and with no direct supervision. At the end of my three-year tour, all of the officers over me had already rotated out and I had to go to the Brigade XO, hat in hand, asking for an award. I was told to write myself up and ended up with a simple ARCOM.
My next assignment was doing staff work back at the school house (Ft. Huachuca). At the end of two years, I was shocked to be handed an MSM for essentially coming to work everyday.
Had my efforts been honestly recognized on the basis of merit, the two awards should have been reversed. In reality, I think they were awarded on the basis of time in service and rank. Lieutenants get ARCOMs; Captains get MSMs.
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Marine Corps side I’ve seen it only issued to retire’s... typically E-8’s, E-9’s a officers when they compete 20yrs or more... I agree with above, NCO level should only receive achievement or commendation level medals unless a combat award... Some branches tend to over write awards, especially the bronze star with no V
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WHile at the Pentagon, I volunteeres to work on several of the events for President Reagan's second inaguration. I worked two events and had to fun evenings. They had pulled quite a few people, however, for up to six weeks to work preparing for the inaguration. At the conclusion, all the longer-term volunteers received awards, and all based on rank. I found this rather odd, first that everyone received an award, then the rank determination. On one committee, a lieutenant colonel I knew received a Defense Meritorious Service Medal, as did the Army, Air Force, and Navy O5's. However, there was a Coast Guard lieutenant on the same committee, doing the same work as the O5's. Yet he received the Joint Service Commendation Medal--for the same work. Forget about the question of whether a person should get an award strictly because they served in a six-week billet, but it seems to me that if a junior military member does the same work as a more senior member, then they certainly deserve the same award--maybe higher.
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GySgt John O'Donnell
With that direct comparison of duties, they are should have received the same award.
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You also have to realize that SSgt could have been a PJ or Combat Controller since their Indoc school is also there at Lackland.
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GySgt John O'Donnell
True, even as former ANGLICO Marine an MSM would still be a very “high bar” even for that mission set.
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Every branch of service has it's own level to issue and receive an award. Typically someone needs to be an exceptional service members, without any concern of rank or time in service to receive an award.
Just look at the persons who have been awarded Medals of Honor, branch Crosses, Silver Stars, Bronze Stars etc.
In WW2, Jimmy Doolittle was awarded the Medal of Honor for leading planes in an air bombing campaign over Japan. He was not fired upon, he was the man along with others, who dropped bombs on an island nation who believed itself unable to have such an incident occurred.
While Privates, Corporals, Sergeants, with fewer then two years were hero's in actions that cost them their lives or limbs. To witness a service member who has received such high awards, is proof that rank, age, time in, has nothing to do with the individuals actions. I knew several Marines and Sailors who had received high awards, yet had not been in for more then three years, but had achieved significant accomplishments that gave the the recognition of being in the top 1% of their service.
I have met three Medal of Honor recipients. One from WW2, one from Korea and one from Vietnam.
Not one of the three bragged about their award, in one case, the Korean War recipient refused to wear the award while in uniform. His reasoning was because it had nothing to do with the other military members around him. He believed it was a personal award.
So as for age, rank, time in, awards do not care!
Just look at the persons who have been awarded Medals of Honor, branch Crosses, Silver Stars, Bronze Stars etc.
In WW2, Jimmy Doolittle was awarded the Medal of Honor for leading planes in an air bombing campaign over Japan. He was not fired upon, he was the man along with others, who dropped bombs on an island nation who believed itself unable to have such an incident occurred.
While Privates, Corporals, Sergeants, with fewer then two years were hero's in actions that cost them their lives or limbs. To witness a service member who has received such high awards, is proof that rank, age, time in, has nothing to do with the individuals actions. I knew several Marines and Sailors who had received high awards, yet had not been in for more then three years, but had achieved significant accomplishments that gave the the recognition of being in the top 1% of their service.
I have met three Medal of Honor recipients. One from WW2, one from Korea and one from Vietnam.
Not one of the three bragged about their award, in one case, the Korean War recipient refused to wear the award while in uniform. His reasoning was because it had nothing to do with the other military members around him. He believed it was a personal award.
So as for age, rank, time in, awards do not care!
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CDR Dan Cunningham
The Doolittle raiders most certainly were fired upon. Of 16 planes that left the USS Hornet, 15 crash landed or the crew bailed out - it was a one-way mission and they knew it. Check out their official website.
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Look at awards from WW11 & Korea & Viet Nam. Service members had to get combat wounded, POW, or dead just to get a PH or BSM now finally some are recognized 70 years later for bleeding out on the field of battle. Totes BS! We’re the the typewriters broken or the clerks too busy writing up Birds & Gens? The NCOs & EMS won the damned battles, yo!
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GySgt John O'Donnell
I think that in those days, EMs and NCOs were less educated in the art of writing then in today’s military. In most cases, as a NCO and SNCO I wrote the 80% solution prior to submitting it to the 1st Officer in my chain of command.
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We all know that vaguely explained achievements may lead to an award for a “job well done” is that just to boost a ADSM cuz that’s all you got? Everyone knows wartime medals or awards increase in number & importance just cuz you’re receiving incoming. Should be for discipline, valor, & achievement. Example: Legion if Merit just cuz you made Lt Col for 16 years.
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As a young Marine an aged Iwo Jima savior told me that when people start talking about medals get distance because it's usually at your expense. In Vietnam I performed an action that was questioned if it warranted a recommendation for an award, the Gunny asked "Was he being shot at" to which the reply was "No", Gunny said negative, end of conversation. You can see where I am coming from. (CW4 AUS RET)
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I have notice that current serving military have many more rows of ribbons than when I served 1966-1970! I believe there are ribbons and medals for so many more things now!
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CW4 Leonard Glasser
Our Staff NCO at ITR in 64 told us "All the salty Marines died on Guadalcanal and we learned that there are no heroes, only "survivors", when you see a Marine with a Campaign Medal / Ribbon it means just that, they survived. My unit awards are very meaningful to me because they remind me of the Marines that served with me. I RAD in 66 after return from WESTPAC RVN (F/2/5) , Semper Fi Brother
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