Posted on Jul 25, 2017
GySgt John O'Donnell
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I recently attended an Air Force Boot Camp Graduation and I saw an Air Force SSgt (E-5) and an Army SSgt (E-6) each wearing an Meritorious Service Medal (Both with less than 12 years service). Now I know there are some difference between branches of service, but this was very surprising considering in the Marine Corps there is a very high standard required to receive the award. Opinions please.
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I returned from Viet Nam as a Marine with 3 ribbons. I switched to the Army after college. From my experience, there is a great deal of difference between services regarding awards. All awards, especially non-combat "attaboys", are especially subjective. Award inflation began as Viet Nam wound on. Now there are ribbons/awards/badges for nearly everything.
SFC Francisco Rosario
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This just the type of mentality that has to change. Awards are not tied to rank or time in service (good conduct medal is the only exception for time). I have seen many soldiers who were deserving of a higher award, and yet they received a lower award because of their rank. The regulation make no such criteria as part of the requirement for the award.
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GySgt John O'Donnell
GySgt John O'Donnell
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SFC Francisco Rosario, I appreciate your comment on the subject, and as I have said to other RallyPoint members, I am not saying there isn’t isolated circumstances where the MSM would be warranted to junior service member, because as you said there is no rack requirement. The point I was making is that more and more I see the achievement and commdatiin medals given as “participation” awards for doing there job, and awards like the MSM and BS given where the responsiblity in a non-combat incident would have and should have warranted a lesser award. In the end, my utilmate point was that there should be a standaization for awarding the MSM and higher awards (non-combat meritorious actions) as to not lessen the importance of said awards across all services.
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SFC Francisco Rosario
SFC Francisco Rosario
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GySgt John O'Donnell - I understand your point, I guess we both advocating for the same thing. But we are doing from opposite situations. Great post.
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CWO5 Ray Lee
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You are correct, Gunny. Years ago I came across and Army Sgt with a MC good conduct wearing a MSM which is very uncommon in the Marines E6 and below. But then in Vietnam it was pretty much SOP in the army to get a Bronze Star end of tour award for E5 and up. E4 gets a Army Comm. Even though it was not restricted by any rank, Marines takes on a higher ground. Usually awarded to E8 and E9 upon retirement or PCS. Occasional Gunnys serving in critical billets whose superior performance while working in upper echelon billets are among those receiving the MSM. For officers, usually for senior staff officers with critical billets upon completion of tour of duty.
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CWO5 Ray Lee
CWO5 Ray Lee
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BTW it is not supposed to be a participation award.
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SSG Jason Penn
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Unless you personally know their service history, I don't think you have anything to complain about. I personally feel that we have gone away from what the awards are meant for. An award should always be given based on the merit of the individual's actions, not on what rank is sewn on their arm!
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CWO3 Us Marine
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Mine cost me 20 years, with easily half of it deployed or separated from family. Not complaining because many did far more and got far less. Got mine in the mail.
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SFC Bill Kurtz
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Before judging the SMS on rank, remember troops like Alvin York and Audie Murphy. The deeds, not the rank, determines the award (or should)
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SSG Ralph Watkins
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While in the SIGINT community, I saw an E-4 & an E-5 get a Legion of Merit. That is higher than the MSM. They did highly important, real world intel work that had great implications. Awards were never supposed to awarded by rank. That has become a massive problem with military politics interfering with deserving people getting the right awards & giving the higher awards based on rank, location, & merely drawing breath.
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TSgt RF Transmission Systems
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MSMs (and all decorations for that matter) are awarded for accomplishments/roles or responsibilities, not based on TIS.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
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I know this is an older conversation, but it is popping in my feed as still active, so here goes.....

The guidance I was always given when writing/recommending awards is that you have to prove to the awarding authority that the actions you are recommending significantly and positively impacted the approving authority's formation.

If the approving authority is a BN CDR (O5 - AAM), you show that the Soldier had a significant and positive impact on the Battalion's mission. An MSM is approved by the Division Commander, so the four that I ever wrote up (all approved) were written to demonstrate that the SSG and the SFCs (1xE6 and 3xE7) had each and every one provided contributions to that Division as a whole. Without the contributions of those 4 individuals (different awards at different times), at least one of the Division Commander's missions would have failed, or at least been severely negatively impacted.

At the end of the day, Commanders approve awards. If you can demonatrate to the Commander, through your writing, that this individual is worthy of that Commander's notice, then that Commander will approve the award.
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GySgt Kenneth Pepper
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I was recommended for a MSM for a very specific action which helped enable the 3 CH53D squadrons located in HI deploy to Afghanistan. This eased the rotation burden for other units throughout the Marine Corps tremendously. It was also my swansong just before retiring.
My CO at the time simply remarked E7 = NCM. Yes, he was one of those guys.
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