Posted on Aug 24, 2014
Is the confederate flag considered offensive by the majority of America?
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Im doing this pole in reference to another question since it can't be added to it after the fact. No response is necessary if you don't want to, just trying to take the survey. If you'd like to comment you can go to this thread as well. https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/displaying-the-confederate-flag-on-your-pov-or-person-while-on-a-military-installation
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Confederate Flag
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Racism and prejudice has been around since the dawn of civilization.
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I realize I'm late to this conversation, but I'd still like to share what I experienced recently here in Burleson, Texas. Here's what I posted on Facebook on 22 Apr 15:
Today I met an elderly woman who was running her little store in Burleson, Texas. Amongst here eclectic inventory were a smattering of items displaying the Confederate Battle Flag. As I placed a Confederate Battle Flag license plate on her counter I asked, "Does anyone give you any grief over these?"
"Yes," she said. "Some folks call me a racist, others mutter that they won't shop here ... but some folks are pleased to find them and I'm actually all out of Flags right now." I asked her, "Is it racist?" Her reply: "It certainly isn't to me." She went to Robert E. Lee High School and was a proud REBEL, she beamed.
I told her she was right, it is only racist if you are a racist. I went on to say that I, for one, refuse to let racists have my own beloved symbol of both my status as an Honor Graduate from Robert E. Lee High School as well as my heritage as a descendant of at least 2 Confederate soldiers.
The Confederate Battle Flag is only racist if you are racist ... and the only way to stop it from truly becoming a wholly racist symbol is to refuse to fly it for better reasons, more honorable reasons, valid reasons. Or, you could just fly it because you are a REBEL!!!
In fact that is the best reason of all ... it is the Rebel Flag and to fly it is, at its heart, an act of rebellion against those who have tried to steal it and those who have been willing to stand by and at best let them and at worst helped them try to turn it into their symbol of racial hatred.
(insert Rebel Yell here)
Today I met an elderly woman who was running her little store in Burleson, Texas. Amongst here eclectic inventory were a smattering of items displaying the Confederate Battle Flag. As I placed a Confederate Battle Flag license plate on her counter I asked, "Does anyone give you any grief over these?"
"Yes," she said. "Some folks call me a racist, others mutter that they won't shop here ... but some folks are pleased to find them and I'm actually all out of Flags right now." I asked her, "Is it racist?" Her reply: "It certainly isn't to me." She went to Robert E. Lee High School and was a proud REBEL, she beamed.
I told her she was right, it is only racist if you are a racist. I went on to say that I, for one, refuse to let racists have my own beloved symbol of both my status as an Honor Graduate from Robert E. Lee High School as well as my heritage as a descendant of at least 2 Confederate soldiers.
The Confederate Battle Flag is only racist if you are racist ... and the only way to stop it from truly becoming a wholly racist symbol is to refuse to fly it for better reasons, more honorable reasons, valid reasons. Or, you could just fly it because you are a REBEL!!!
In fact that is the best reason of all ... it is the Rebel Flag and to fly it is, at its heart, an act of rebellion against those who have tried to steal it and those who have been willing to stand by and at best let them and at worst helped them try to turn it into their symbol of racial hatred.
(insert Rebel Yell here)
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CPT Christopher Webb
One thing is certain: at the time there were heroes on both sides ... as the names of streets and schools can attest. As far as I'm concerned they remain heroes, patriots, lovers of their homeland, willing to die for it all. There is honor in that. There is honor in any soldier who serves his country, no matter what country that is.
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CPT Christopher Webb
Like I said, that was a long time ago ... what does it really have to do with right now? Pick on Bowie if you like, but the Founding Fathers were far from perfect too. And, L S, I've never heard or read any of what you are saying about Bowie. How about some references?
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Could be either. It depends on what's in a person heart and mind. I don't judge (or try not to) a man by anything but his character.
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I can understand how one might view the confederate flag in the same light that the Nazi flag is viewed.
With that said, to many, it is a symbol of cultural heritage. You dont have to understand it, you dont have to even agree with it, but if someone views it as a symbol of their roots, of their culture, respect it.
There are other flags in the world that could ve construed as oppressive. In fact, the Ottoman Empire was responsible for genocide of the Armenians and their flag is largely that of Turkey. Should we demand that Turkey abandon their symbol of murder abd genocide? Thats obsurd, of course we wouldnt.
With that said, to many, it is a symbol of cultural heritage. You dont have to understand it, you dont have to even agree with it, but if someone views it as a symbol of their roots, of their culture, respect it.
There are other flags in the world that could ve construed as oppressive. In fact, the Ottoman Empire was responsible for genocide of the Armenians and their flag is largely that of Turkey. Should we demand that Turkey abandon their symbol of murder abd genocide? Thats obsurd, of course we wouldnt.
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Didn't this topic get beaten to death in another thread?
Heritage, NOT Hate
Heritage, NOT Hate
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SPC Charles Brown
I was not born 180 years ago. I did not fight in the civil war. I did however have family members who fought on both sides in that war. I was raised to have pride in the military service of ALL of my predecessors. That being said, I believe in my family heritage and refuse to pick and choose which side I support.
For those who claim that if you fly the "Confederate" flag you are either prejudice or a racist I have to call bullshit. If you knew me you would know that I have friends of all ethnic groups, not races, as there is only one and that is the human race.
I am asking SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP' TSgt Hunter Logan LTC Yinon Weiss to monitor the further comments on this particular section of the thread.
For those who claim that if you fly the "Confederate" flag you are either prejudice or a racist I have to call bullshit. If you knew me you would know that I have friends of all ethnic groups, not races, as there is only one and that is the human race.
I am asking SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP' TSgt Hunter Logan LTC Yinon Weiss to monitor the further comments on this particular section of the thread.
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SSgt Thomas L.
A typical fallacy is the belief that because you do not hate any one or have friends from many races and ethnicities, that you do not carry beliefs and attitudes that contribute to a racist culture. I have an intrinsic respect for anyone who is willing to risk their life for their ideals, but that doesn't mean I respect those ideals. The fact that we're all members of a fraternal organization dedicated to killing those who would take up arms against our culture illustrates that. That being said, the Civil War was a very complicated time in our history, and everyone who fought had their own reasons for doing so (many were drafted). All of this does not take away from the overall reason for the war: Slave-owning states feared losing their slaves, so then founded their own nation based upon what they saw as that right, then attempted to liberate land for that nation from the United States.
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The Confederacy was not formed to preserve slavery. Slavery was a minor issue in the grand scheme of things that led to the Civil War.
The Confederacy was all about State's Rights vs Big Federal government.
Now I grew up in Ohio, so I got the northerner's view on the Civil War and they really drilled it into ya that it was fought to free the slaves. It was fought to reunite the country (north) vs preserving the rights of the individual states (south).
We're starting to see it again. Government is getting too big and butting it's nose into the business of the States.
The Confederacy was all about State's Rights vs Big Federal government.
Now I grew up in Ohio, so I got the northerner's view on the Civil War and they really drilled it into ya that it was fought to free the slaves. It was fought to reunite the country (north) vs preserving the rights of the individual states (south).
We're starting to see it again. Government is getting too big and butting it's nose into the business of the States.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
Except that slavery was specifically mentioned in the secession declarations of several states. The attempt to downplay the role of slavery in the advent of the Civil War is white wash at best, downright intellectual dishonesty at worst.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SGT Jeremiah B. , you are absolutely correct, the preservation of slavery was written into most of the declarations of secession, but let me ask you this. Did ANY of the declarations of secession even suggest the use of violence, or hostilities against the North? All the southern States wanted was to dissolve their union with the other States united. They called for no violence, they did not want control of the existing federal government, and instead wanted to form their own government that ran more along the lines of the articles of confederation which once again would recognize the sovereignty of each of the States as was the case under which each of the States ratified the Constitution. NOT to be subjects of the Central government, but rather to create a central government to act as their agent for the purposes of common defense, in dealings with foreign entities, and to resolve disputes between the many States.
So the simple act of secession, for whichever reason was not cause for hostilities. It was Lincoln's idea of preserving the union at all costs, that set in motion the chain of events leading to hostilities.
I would challenge you to find in the Constitution the enumerated power of the Federal government to prevent secession, or to take actions to preserve the union at all cost.
Lastly, I would like to add that Slavery was a horrible institution, and was practiced on a great many countries in this Hemisphere at the time. ALL but the US and Haiti were able to resolve the issue of Slavery without war as their vehicle to do so. Slave labor is productive, but is also horribly inefficient. The increasing industrialization would have soon made slave labor obsolete without the deaths of 600,000 -1 million Americans.
I would argue that making the general assertion that slavery caused the War between the States is, in itself, not accurate. It was a factor that led to secession, though the exponentially growing excise taxes that were being imposed on the Southern ports had a lot to do with the secession as well. The trap too many fall into, is to associate secession with hostilities. It was the North, that would not permit the secession to stand, which led to hostilities.
Regards.
So the simple act of secession, for whichever reason was not cause for hostilities. It was Lincoln's idea of preserving the union at all costs, that set in motion the chain of events leading to hostilities.
I would challenge you to find in the Constitution the enumerated power of the Federal government to prevent secession, or to take actions to preserve the union at all cost.
Lastly, I would like to add that Slavery was a horrible institution, and was practiced on a great many countries in this Hemisphere at the time. ALL but the US and Haiti were able to resolve the issue of Slavery without war as their vehicle to do so. Slave labor is productive, but is also horribly inefficient. The increasing industrialization would have soon made slave labor obsolete without the deaths of 600,000 -1 million Americans.
I would argue that making the general assertion that slavery caused the War between the States is, in itself, not accurate. It was a factor that led to secession, though the exponentially growing excise taxes that were being imposed on the Southern ports had a lot to do with the secession as well. The trap too many fall into, is to associate secession with hostilities. It was the North, that would not permit the secession to stand, which led to hostilities.
Regards.
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Depends on perspective, I suppose. The Civil war was about slavery, yes, but it was about a number of other things too. For that matter, one could argue that slavery isn't even about race (since the question addresses racism). Yes, that's how it played out in our country, but I would bet that if the "free" labor was white, Asian, Spanish, or whatever, the fight (and the results) would have been the same.
To me, as much as slavery, the Confederate flag represents a deep political division of our Country and a bloody brother-on-brother war. While it's a part of our history that I'm sure some would just as soon forget, we'd better not.
Personally, I have no use for the Confederate flag. I see it as representative of a broken country that cost a lot of blood to fix, all over something that never should have happened in the first place.
To me, as much as slavery, the Confederate flag represents a deep political division of our Country and a bloody brother-on-brother war. While it's a part of our history that I'm sure some would just as soon forget, we'd better not.
Personally, I have no use for the Confederate flag. I see it as representative of a broken country that cost a lot of blood to fix, all over something that never should have happened in the first place.
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If you look at that flag and the first thing that comes to mind is race, maybe you need to take a close look inside. I may not have all that good schooling but even I learned the war was started over the southern states wanting to break away from the Union, and not over slavery. Slavery was added to get more fighting power to the north and disrupt the south.
Yes some hate groups use the flag and there dumber than shit for doing so. It's not what the Flag is about. But you may want to argue about it as is your right.
But think about this. There is a symbol out there that over 100milion people in America wear or have in there home that hate crimes have been committed in its name but nobody say's a word about it. It's ok people would rather forget that. It is the CROSS. (Please don't get me wrong im not against the church or anything just making my point) Scouts Out.
GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad
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SPC Carl K.
Yes some hate groups use the flag and there dumber than shit for doing so. It's not what the Flag is about. But you may want to argue about it as is your right.
But think about this. There is a symbol out there that over 100milion people in America wear or have in there home that hate crimes have been committed in its name but nobody say's a word about it. It's ok people would rather forget that. It is the CROSS. (Please don't get me wrong im not against the church or anything just making my point) Scouts Out.
GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad
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SPC Carl K.
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MSgt (Join to see)
I don't have any feeling towards or for the flag, as I see it as the flag of the Confederacy. But that is a very important take SPC Christian Ziegler. A lot of people don't want to admit that, but many of crimes and inhumane acts have been committed in the name of Christ. Slave owning "Christians" is just one of them.
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SPC Larry Boutwell
I say heritage....its history...its people that choose to tie it to racism...groups like the kkk...kinda like how hitler perverted and twisted the Buddhist symbol.....well at lest i think he did...dont qoute me...im not a historian.....im an electical engineer...js..lol
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SPC Larry Boutwell
Plus to be honest...first thing that comes to mind for me isnt even the kkk or the south ...its the dukes of hazzard...js...lol
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The last time I checked, it was the battle flag for the Army of Northern Virginia. The media has stirred this up into a racist issue, I believe.
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SGT (Join to see)
I really think the media screws everything up. I know this flag was a battle flag for the south during the Civil War. Slavery was an issue and it wasnt the only thing the war was fought over.
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SGT (Join to see)
The media only shows what they want to. No obviously this isnt just all media. But you really think that the media will show the confederate flag with something good in it. I really think they are helping the flag stay a figure of racism and not historical.
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SPC Carl K.
Granted, the KKK uses the flag, but they also use the U.S. flag and white sheets. I guess we should also say that the U.S. flag and white sheets are racist, as well. Nooses were used for a wide variety of executions. However, nowadays, if anyone ties a noose, even as a joke, they are labeled a racist. Hell, for that matter, I drive an ex-cop car as my daily driver. It has the push bumpers on it and spotlights. I guess in light of recent police activity, that makes me racist. It is all about perception, and like SGT (Join to see) said, it is no secret the media shows only what they want to show to put their spin on any story. The thing about the Confederate battle flag, there are many people who feel the flag should be banned altogether, and quite frankly, no matter how it is used, that would be a travesty for history's sake.
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The flag itself symbolises one of two things, depending on where you're from and what your skin colour is: it either USUALLY symbolises one's "southern heritage" (usually "HEY Y'ALL I'M A COUNTRY BOY!") or it can also mean "the person flying that flag is probably a redneck and a bigot, so I'd better be careful". Of course I suppose there's the third option: "who really cares?"
The irony that I tend to see the most is, people who fly a Confederate battle flag oftentimes will say "it's my right to fly this flag, I ain't no racist but I don't care if you're offended"... but the minute they're in the presence of two men holding hands or kissing, suddenly they're the ones getting butt-hurt about how that's offensive to them and they shouldn't have to see it.
People tend to lose perspective really quickly when the shoe is on the other foot.
The irony that I tend to see the most is, people who fly a Confederate battle flag oftentimes will say "it's my right to fly this flag, I ain't no racist but I don't care if you're offended"... but the minute they're in the presence of two men holding hands or kissing, suddenly they're the ones getting butt-hurt about how that's offensive to them and they shouldn't have to see it.
People tend to lose perspective really quickly when the shoe is on the other foot.
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