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I went to the range to day for the first tome since basic training, 3 years ago, and did really poorly. I know it’s my own fault for not doing well but many people are telling me the M16 and M4 are really different to shoot. Contrary to my performance today I’m not a terrible shot.
They didn’t feel too different. The biggest change for me was using iron sites, as in basic we use CCOs. If anything I’d say that was part of my poor performance.
Are they that different? Different enough to go from shooting 32-34 targets with easy to not qualifying.
I know I need to fix it and I will. Also, anyone have any tips?
They didn’t feel too different. The biggest change for me was using iron sites, as in basic we use CCOs. If anything I’d say that was part of my poor performance.
Are they that different? Different enough to go from shooting 32-34 targets with easy to not qualifying.
I know I need to fix it and I will. Also, anyone have any tips?
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 17
All other things being equal, the M16 should be more accurate since it has a longer barrel and a solid stock. If you aren't used to shooting with iron sights, there are a number of YouTube videos that can show you the basics. Hopefully, before you shot qualification, they ran you through a zero range. Also, remember that the rear peep sight as an aperture for zero and one to shoot. Many a soldier has failed shooting through the wrong sight. As a hint to pass, it's damn hard to see that 300 meter target through the peep and you don't have to shoot it to pass. Concentrate on shooting all of the closer ones first.
Trigger time makes for a better shooter. It's hard to find an M16 style AR around here, but if you can come up with one, range time will improve your shooting.
Trigger time makes for a better shooter. It's hard to find an M16 style AR around here, but if you can come up with one, range time will improve your shooting.
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If you learned to shoot with a CCO and are now shooting with iron sights that is likely the difference. Ensuring you have good "dope" on your weapon, good check weld on the stock and other fundamentals is important. Zero the sights and then working on adjusting them based upon the distance you are shooting.
The only significant difference in the M4 and the M16 is barrel length. That could impact you at greater distances but not in close (less than 200 yards).
The only significant difference in the M4 and the M16 is barrel length. That could impact you at greater distances but not in close (less than 200 yards).
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3 years? In what unit you are?.
Your poor performance is most likely because of lack of practice
Your poor performance is most likely because of lack of practice
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SSG Laurie Mullen
I was in a TRADOC unit for a couple of years and we didn't have an arms room, we also didn't have an NBC room. If you needed to qualify for promotion points you went to the range with another unit and borrowed one of their weapons.
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LTC Jason Mackay
TDA units don't have assigned weapons, except the HHC I commanded in Korea. I commanded a Garrison and there were no assigned weapons. I borrowed one from my police Department and qualified with them on LE tables.
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I only fired the M4 in BCT. Irons vs CCO are very different. I qualified 40/40 with iron sights and only 37/40 with the CCO. I do not know if its because the CCO's we where using have been used and abused so much that even the slight recoil from the carbine could throw it out of zero, of if i just was not comprehending the optic, but i was constantly using Kentucky windage to make my shots with the CCO. irons i was on with every shot, every time. You just have to practice sight picture, breath control, trigger control, and cheek to stock. But bo amount of "tips and tricks" will make up for range time practice! If you cannot afford to spend hundreds on ammo to practice, they have lazer bullets now for dry fire practice. I recommend looking into that. It'll help with sight picture, breath, and trigger control. But again, nothing replaces true range time... as you need to be familiar with recoil and target sight alignment and re-alignment.
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Short answer, yes. Different. CCO to iron sights. Barrel length. Collapsing butt stock. Hand guards to the rail system. Did you use that grip attachment? Did you hold it the same? Use the block under the guards or barrel or not at all? More or less sling wrap around?
I strongly urge you speak to your FLL and such and bring up the SARG. Small Arms Readiness Group. Their training and fundamentals during NTC brought me from a 26 up to high 30's. Overall you'll need more range time and weapon familiarity.
Do you have access to the small sized laser ranges? Bore laser sights?
There are a lot of tips for this, just depends what you are doing and what fits best. Message me and I can give you all the details possible that I use every time and I use for coaching others.
I strongly urge you speak to your FLL and such and bring up the SARG. Small Arms Readiness Group. Their training and fundamentals during NTC brought me from a 26 up to high 30's. Overall you'll need more range time and weapon familiarity.
Do you have access to the small sized laser ranges? Bore laser sights?
There are a lot of tips for this, just depends what you are doing and what fits best. Message me and I can give you all the details possible that I use every time and I use for coaching others.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) I can talk to our former SARG member and see about them traveling. I think Big Army is bringing it back and their AT can be spent going to bases and doing fundamentals and training. Those how I was exposed to it.
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Depends on the day...sometimes you score high ...sometimes low. When I was younger in the 70's..USMC.. all the rifle range scores were fake including the PFT. I looked at my records...and rhought..when did I do that? The ANG did the same thing.
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