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or is it leaders business?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 35
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Yes, the old adage is NCOs run the Army and Officers Plan & Manage the Army. It's a shame that Warrant Officers aren't included in that adage BUT then does anyone who is not a Warrant Office really know what they do?
PLEASE NOTE: Warrant Officers were not meant to be offended by the writing of this POST.
PLEASE NOTE: Warrant Officers were not meant to be offended by the writing of this POST.
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COL Randall C.
I absolutely know what Warrant Officers do ... They scare me when they tell me, "Sir, watch this s***!"
On a more serious note, in a military where enlisted and officers are always trained to do the job they just left (think it through), Warrants are the technical experts both can rely on for their guidance, skills and knowledge. Generally, Warrants remain in position for a longer periond of time than officers/enlisted do (at least, that's the goal in the Army ... not sure about the other services), so get much more technical expertise regarding the job.
On a more serious note, in a military where enlisted and officers are always trained to do the job they just left (think it through), Warrants are the technical experts both can rely on for their guidance, skills and knowledge. Generally, Warrants remain in position for a longer periond of time than officers/enlisted do (at least, that's the goal in the Army ... not sure about the other services), so get much more technical expertise regarding the job.
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SFC Nikhil Kumra
It's completely unknown... Nobody's ever seen a real-life one during a duty day before!
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There is, but there shouldn't be. If it's NCO business it is leader's business. For example when it comes to semi-centralized promotions, it is the company commander who signs off on who goes to the board. Yet, most of the time the commanders leave this completely up to the NCOs to decide. I personally wouldn't want to sign off on something purely based on someone else's opinion, no matter how trust worthy. I've realized that even the most seemingly trust worthy individuals will still make partial and biased judgments some times. Senior NCOs also do a lot of things based on traditional and not always in accordance with regulations. If I were an officer, I would be as involved as possible. I would not afford my NCOs the opportunity to abuse their authority, but rather make them earn their authority and responsibilities.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT Wiley,
As a senior NCO and someone that has served as a PSG it is your opinion that matters and should weigh heavily in the decision to promote a Soldier. As a company commander you are responsible for upwards of 100 Soldiers and there is no way to witness and personally see every Soldiers daily work habits.
Yes you do have leaders that do not like a certain person for some odd reason but I think that the majority of the leaders out there are making the right decisions. Those choices are not limited to senior NCO's.
To say senior NCO's do things on tradition and not in accordance with regulations would be incorrect.
As a senior NCO making a decision on a promotion I think I would have already shown the abilty to assist with making that promotion decision.
At the end of the day we make recommendations to the commander who then decides to approve or disapprove.
As a senior NCO and someone that has served as a PSG it is your opinion that matters and should weigh heavily in the decision to promote a Soldier. As a company commander you are responsible for upwards of 100 Soldiers and there is no way to witness and personally see every Soldiers daily work habits.
Yes you do have leaders that do not like a certain person for some odd reason but I think that the majority of the leaders out there are making the right decisions. Those choices are not limited to senior NCO's.
To say senior NCO's do things on tradition and not in accordance with regulations would be incorrect.
As a senior NCO making a decision on a promotion I think I would have already shown the abilty to assist with making that promotion decision.
At the end of the day we make recommendations to the commander who then decides to approve or disapprove.
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SGT Kristin Wiley
Well I understand your reasoning, and in a 'typical' command that reasoning may work. My first line supervisor is an O-4, his boss is an O-6, but a Navy E-8 in a completely different section is the one who has the authority to 'recommend' me for promotion. This E-8 has no direction supervision over me, and sees me less than once a week. She knows nothing about Army promotion standards, and other than being a senior NCO has no qualifications to recommend/not recommend me. If the 3 Army officers in my section took the liberty to get involved in "NCO business" they would know the only reason I have not gotten recommended is due to personal bias. When leaders start acting in the best interest of their soldiers and not themselves, then I will trust them to conduct their business without getting involved. I have yet to see that happen in my career, and I know many of my peers have the same experiences.
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<p>There is such a thing as NCO Business, just the same as there is Officer Business. </p><p> </p><p>As the NCO Creed says "Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will
not have to accomplish mine." It should go the same for both. </p>
not have to accomplish mine." It should go the same for both. </p>
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There is only "company business" Both officers and NCO's participate in a collaborative nature to accomplish Company business. To say there is a distinction between the two is to marginalize one or the other.
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NO ! There is leader business. There is business that Officers should handle and business that Officers should stand back and let NCOs handle but they should still be aware of.
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Of course. NCO purview. In civilian terms, NCOs are foremen, officers are executives.
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1LT Lorenzo Llorente, I am surprised the conversation got this far without anyone posting the book answer...which can be found in TC 7-22.7, The NCO Guide. http://www.apd.army.mil/ProductMaps/TRADOC/TC.aspx
I am curious to hear your thoughts on the subject after you have had time to peruse chapter five, here is a small excerpt....
"5.2. Army Officers and NCO relationship. Mutual trust and common goals are the two characteristics that enhance the relationship between Officers and NCOs. For instance, “NCOs have roles as trainers, mentors, communicators, and advisors. When junior officers first serve in the Army, their NCO helps to train and mold them. Doing so ensures Soldier safety while forming professional and personal bonds with the officers based on mutual trust and common goals” NCOs are “the backbone of the Army” and are the senior enlisted advisors who assist Commanders with knowledge and discipline for all enlisted matters.
a. Every Soldier has a Sergeant. Officers are no exception. Platoon Sergeants, First Sergeants, Sergeants Major and Command Sergeants Major at all levels serve as their respective officer’s Sergeant.
b. An important part of your role as an NCO is how you relate to commissioned officers. To develop this working relationship, NCOs and officers must know the similarities of their respective duties and responsibilities
I am curious to hear your thoughts on the subject after you have had time to peruse chapter five, here is a small excerpt....
"5.2. Army Officers and NCO relationship. Mutual trust and common goals are the two characteristics that enhance the relationship between Officers and NCOs. For instance, “NCOs have roles as trainers, mentors, communicators, and advisors. When junior officers first serve in the Army, their NCO helps to train and mold them. Doing so ensures Soldier safety while forming professional and personal bonds with the officers based on mutual trust and common goals” NCOs are “the backbone of the Army” and are the senior enlisted advisors who assist Commanders with knowledge and discipline for all enlisted matters.
a. Every Soldier has a Sergeant. Officers are no exception. Platoon Sergeants, First Sergeants, Sergeants Major and Command Sergeants Major at all levels serve as their respective officer’s Sergeant.
b. An important part of your role as an NCO is how you relate to commissioned officers. To develop this working relationship, NCOs and officers must know the similarities of their respective duties and responsibilities
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Yes! Why? Number of reasons.
1. We don't want you to know
2. You need to concentrate on bigger things
3. Don't micro manage us and allow us to lead
4. It is a problem that needs to be handled at our level so you have plausible deniability.
5. You don't need to know everything.
6. My years of experience of dealing with soldiers probably is best suited to handle the situation
7. We are talking about you or other officers
8. You just might be the problem.
Where Are more, but these pretty much cover most of it. Don't get offended officers. These reasons are the same when NCOs are dismissed.
1. We don't want you to know
2. You need to concentrate on bigger things
3. Don't micro manage us and allow us to lead
4. It is a problem that needs to be handled at our level so you have plausible deniability.
5. You don't need to know everything.
6. My years of experience of dealing with soldiers probably is best suited to handle the situation
7. We are talking about you or other officers
8. You just might be the problem.
Where Are more, but these pretty much cover most of it. Don't get offended officers. These reasons are the same when NCOs are dismissed.
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