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Army
Officers
NCOs
Responses: 266
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That the NCO is the backbone of the Army is more than just a catch phrase, it's a fact that NCOs must endeavor to live up to.
I spent 40 years in uniform, 17 as a Command Sergeant Major, 9 at the nominative level, including a year in a multi/national, joint forces billet in Iraq.
I can say without any reservation that the NCO in the American military in general and in the Army specifically, carry more responsibility, are recognized and more respected than NCOs serving in any other military in the world.
One of the hardest responsibilities I had in Iraq was selling their military in the value of a strong NCO Corps.
In my 40 years I ran into a couple of officers that either didn't know the difference between NCO business or didn't care. The ones that didn't know needed to be educated and the ones that just wanted to get down in the weeds with you, you would just do your job in spite of them.
I always sat down early with my raters and learned exactly what was expected of me, I learned the commander's intent and volunteered what skills I had that could help them succeed in their position.
If you don't do your job, many officers will try to step in and do it for you. So it's up to you not to abdicate your responsibilities.
Lead by example, maintain the standards, for them and yourself, detect and correct, train your subordinates, treat them with respect, never expect them to do something you would never do yourself, get to know them, take care of them and their families, lead by walking around, listen to them, be even handed in your praise, awards, rewards, your discipline and remember that not all counseling is bad. Know what's in your lane and what to do if it's not.
Make it a big deal when your subordinates become NCO's and subsequent promotions.
Learn the NCO Creed and endeavor to live it everyday.
I spent 40 years in uniform, 17 as a Command Sergeant Major, 9 at the nominative level, including a year in a multi/national, joint forces billet in Iraq.
I can say without any reservation that the NCO in the American military in general and in the Army specifically, carry more responsibility, are recognized and more respected than NCOs serving in any other military in the world.
One of the hardest responsibilities I had in Iraq was selling their military in the value of a strong NCO Corps.
In my 40 years I ran into a couple of officers that either didn't know the difference between NCO business or didn't care. The ones that didn't know needed to be educated and the ones that just wanted to get down in the weeds with you, you would just do your job in spite of them.
I always sat down early with my raters and learned exactly what was expected of me, I learned the commander's intent and volunteered what skills I had that could help them succeed in their position.
If you don't do your job, many officers will try to step in and do it for you. So it's up to you not to abdicate your responsibilities.
Lead by example, maintain the standards, for them and yourself, detect and correct, train your subordinates, treat them with respect, never expect them to do something you would never do yourself, get to know them, take care of them and their families, lead by walking around, listen to them, be even handed in your praise, awards, rewards, your discipline and remember that not all counseling is bad. Know what's in your lane and what to do if it's not.
Make it a big deal when your subordinates become NCO's and subsequent promotions.
Learn the NCO Creed and endeavor to live it everyday.
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I would say tge power NCOs had was due to an overall weakness in the Officer ranks at low levels. And now that a purge has begun at the NCO level there is a lack of quality enlisted leadership. I knew alot of good NCOs that left because of the bullshit. Never knew one officer that left for reasons other than promotions.
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Officer's gave the responsibilities, NCO's have power. NCO's execute, if they execute poorly, the Officer takes the brunt of it. I told Officers when I was a SFC, my job is to make you look good, I will do that if you trust me, violate that trust, I can make you look bad
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Suspended Profile
I'm an officer and a former NCO. I disagree whole heartedly. Officers are planners and managers, NCOs train and lead. Together we enjoy mission success. Officers may be the highest ranking leader in the unit, but it comes down to the day to day leadership and example of NCOs that makes our Army great.
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Sad to say but this is the truth. I remember when the Army was NCO Lead (1984-90) and Officers were figureheads that signed what we said sign and we were trusted to get the job done. An Officer lead Army is what caused the crumble of the Japanese Army and now they swear by the greatness of their NCO's.
I had hoped that this was just a phase but no such luck. AND, the bigger problem is the lack of trust between Officers and NCO's also the lack of respect from JR Officers toward SR NCO's. You cannot learn from somebody that you have been taught to not trust. This need major repair.
I had hoped that this was just a phase but no such luck. AND, the bigger problem is the lack of trust between Officers and NCO's also the lack of respect from JR Officers toward SR NCO's. You cannot learn from somebody that you have been taught to not trust. This need major repair.
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1SG (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) - I think you missed my point (TRUST). I have never been in a situation where a 1st or 2nd LT or CPT for that matter, could teach me how to Soldier. NCO's Teach, Coach and Mentor young officers. Once the bond of Trust and confidence were breeched, the levels of confidence that Officers had in NCO's went away and we went from being the Backbone to just GRISSEL! Officers that should have been learning from enlisted, how to get things done, became the planner, director and one of the workers; the NCO's power and input were not valued anymore.
AND Yes, Officers give orders but are you really willing to let a 2nd LT lead you on a mission outside the wire or are you going to guide him through the process, to get yourself and the Soldiers home. We both know that In 8yrs a guy off the streets can be your commander and if he has not gotten good mentorship from sharp NCO's, he will fail. Do you agree with that?
You retired in 2002 and the 2nd phase of operations started in 03. Imagine the US Soldiers that would have been lost, if we let some kid off the street and fresh out of OCS lead a patrol instead of his sharp SSG and SFC explaining the pitfalls and mentoring him on lessons learned.
SO, YES, I get your point but do you see what I am saying now. I understand the direction of orders but I also know my role in the growth of JR Officers and NCO's, the inherent and informal norms of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines.
AND Yes, Officers give orders but are you really willing to let a 2nd LT lead you on a mission outside the wire or are you going to guide him through the process, to get yourself and the Soldiers home. We both know that In 8yrs a guy off the streets can be your commander and if he has not gotten good mentorship from sharp NCO's, he will fail. Do you agree with that?
You retired in 2002 and the 2nd phase of operations started in 03. Imagine the US Soldiers that would have been lost, if we let some kid off the street and fresh out of OCS lead a patrol instead of his sharp SSG and SFC explaining the pitfalls and mentoring him on lessons learned.
SO, YES, I get your point but do you see what I am saying now. I understand the direction of orders but I also know my role in the growth of JR Officers and NCO's, the inherent and informal norms of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines.
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1SG (Join to see)
And for the record, although what you said was correct BUT go, as a 1SG, and tell your CSM that and let me know how that works out for you! LOL
Tell him that you are going to wait for orders to get things done and wait for your 8yr Captain to lay out a plan to make your company the get through that QTB, CI or COMET inspection. How long would you be a 1SG, after that conversation.
With your integrity intact, tell me that you let the commander run your company. NO 1SG DOES AND NO OFFICER OPPOSES HIM OR HER!
Tell him that you are going to wait for orders to get things done and wait for your 8yr Captain to lay out a plan to make your company the get through that QTB, CI or COMET inspection. How long would you be a 1SG, after that conversation.
With your integrity intact, tell me that you let the commander run your company. NO 1SG DOES AND NO OFFICER OPPOSES HIM OR HER!
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1SG (Join to see)
THATS WHY I SAID IN MY INITIAL RESPONSE TO YOU THAT UNLESS A SOLDIER IS GIVEN AN ORDER THAT PUTS THEIR LIVES IN A LIFE OR DEATH SITUATION LEAVING THEM WITH NO WAY OUT, (YOU DONT HAVE TO FOLLOW IT.) I DONT DISAGREE WITH YOU AS IT RELATE TO. JR. OFFICERS WHO REFUSES TO ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE A TEAM PLAYER WHEN IT COMES TO STRATEGIC PLANNING TOWARDS TRAINING ALONG THE SIDE OF SENIOR NCOS WHOS BEEN THERE , DONE THAT. IT COULD ONLY MAKE HIM A STRONGER LEADER. IF YOU ARE HAVING THIS TYPE OF ISSUE IN YOUR UNIT PERHAPS YOU MAY WANT TO BRING THIS ISSUE TO HIS OR HER COMMANDERS IN A NOTE FORM. IF THIS DOESENT WORK THEN I WOULD BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE ADJUTANT GENERAL SO THAT YOU CAN GET SOME KIND OF RESOLVE, AND IF THAT DOESENT WORK THEN YOU PROBABLY WILL HAVE TO RUN IT BY YOUR CONGRESSMAN, THERE AINT NOTHING WRONG WITH CORRESPONDING WITH YOUR CONGRESSMAN WHEN YOU HAVE EXHAUSTED ALL LEGAL REMEDIES TO RESOLVE AN ISSUE THAT IS EFFECTING YOU FROM BEING ABLE TO DO YOUR JOB AS A LEADER. I HAVE HAD TO DO THAT BEFORE DURING MY CAREER AND I GOT POSITIVE RESULTS. IF YOU DONT DO SOMETHING THAT BRING ABOUT A POSITIVE OUTCOME TO THIS SITUATION THEN IT FESTER AND FESTER AND FESTER UNTIL IT BECOMES TOXIC. AND ONCE THAT HAPPENS ONLY ONE OR TWO THINGS WILL HAPPEN 1. NOTHING ENDS UP GETTING DONE, OR 2. YOU WILL END UP FIGHTING AMONGST EACH OTHER, AND NEITHER ONE OF THOSE ARE GOOD DESICIONS FOR THE NCO'S OR THE OFFICERS, AND IT CERTAINLY IS NOT GOOD LEADERSHIP ALL THE WAY AROUND.AND SO6HOPE THAT THIS IS NOT A MILITARY WIDE PROBLEM, PERHAPS YOU HAVE JUST HAD SOME BAD EXPERIENCES AS IT RELATE TO THIS MATTER AND IF SO I WOULD GET TO RESOLVING IT RIGHT AWAY. SORRY THAT YOU HAVE HAD TO EXPERIENCE THIS TYPE OF ISSUE BUT TRUST ME I KNOW THINGS LIKE THIS DO HAPPEN FROM TIME TO TIME, AND I WOULD END BY SAYING THIS, CONTINUE TO BE A GREAT LEADER AND LEAD BY EXAMPLE, YOU CAN NEVER GO WRONG WHEN YOU DO IT THAT WAY.
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1SG (Join to see)
I am a firm believer that Tuesday is combative PT day and have never excluded Officers from Combatives because things get worked out there.
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That started back in the '70s when NCOs below E8 were treated like overpaid Privates.
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It all depends on what type on unit, post, division that you are assigned to
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Not really, I wouldn't get anything done without my warrants and NCOs.
We are mostly paper shufflers and planners. All the "doing" is done by the enlisted corps.
We are mostly paper shufflers and planners. All the "doing" is done by the enlisted corps.
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The "power/authority" that NCO's "had" is still there. If you are looking at it in the past tense then you've probably allowed your authority to be taken from you. Our authority to act as NCO's is granted to us from the Officer Corps. It is our duty to execute their decisions; to advise them on matters; and to present a unified front with them in front of Soldiers. The best command teams (Officer/NCO) are those that complement each other - and in doing so recognize the roles and responsibilities that each have. I am very fortunate to have an excellent working relationship with the battalion commander I work for. I may only physically see him two days a month but we communicate frequently during the work week and he enables me to do my job and represent him.
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Power? Do you mean authority? No matter what you mean those who have lost it likely did so because they failed in their basic responsibilities. I've seen it happen. You have to earn those stripes every day.
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