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I'm an USAF active duty O-3 with 8 years time in service. An opportunity for me to transition into a USAF Active Guard/Reserve (AGR) position with the Air Force Reserves (not the guard) is available and I'd like to know: "is it worth it?" I know there are many variables, but being 12 years away from retirement, what do I need to know? I only know what's available in AFIs and myPers, but what's the unwritten information and rules about AGR? How attainable is career status? How often would I have to PCS? Is a position vacancy (PV) promotion as simple as it sounds? Etc.
AGR
Reserves
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 35
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First off, that 20-year retirement letter is worth your weight in gold. Second, switching to the Reserve/Air Guard is a noble move IF you have a significant civilian job waiting for you on the outside. And, there is another factor to consider...family...what will the impact be on them? Remember: the grass is always greener where you water it!!!
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PO1 John Miller
SCPO (Join to see)
But in this case Capt (Join to see) is being offered an AGR slot. AGR is basically active duty but for the reserves. The Navy for instance calls it Full Time Support/FTS, and used to call it Training and Administration of Reserves/TAR.
But in this case Capt (Join to see) is being offered an AGR slot. AGR is basically active duty but for the reserves. The Navy for instance calls it Full Time Support/FTS, and used to call it Training and Administration of Reserves/TAR.
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PO1 John Miller
TSgt (Join to see)
Precisely. I worked with a few AGR Guardsmen at my last job so I'm somewhat familiar with the AGR program.
Precisely. I worked with a few AGR Guardsmen at my last job so I'm somewhat familiar with the AGR program.
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*UPDATE*
So I've been in the reserves as a traditional reservist for a year and would like to answer my own questions with the limited perspective I've gained.
*Is [an AGR position] worth it?*
Absolutely. Any job can stink but AGR jobs appear to be 75% Admin / 25% ops. My active duty Flight Commander job was 95% admin / 5% ops split, so this is a significant improvement.
*What do I need to know?*
Yes, you can get an active duty retirement if you have the correct type and right amount of points. Rule of thumb: 7200 points = active duty retirement. Yes, it’s more complicated than that, but that’s a good rule of thumb.
*Career Status*
As of spring 2018, from the AGRs in my squadron, it’s “no longer a thing.” 1 individual was given career status years ago and appears to benefit from it, but for the most part it’s more bark than bite. That said, it appears AGRs are more competitive for follow on assignments, development education, opportunities, etc. There are reasons for this, but chiefly it’s because their OPRs are better because they’re there full-time, which is logical.
*PCS*
Whenever you earn an assignment with PCS funding. If you’re an AGR around DC, you wouldn’t have to move to progress from ADO to Staff to CC to Staff, etc. However, if you were able to successfully string together a career of full-time assignments you would PCS just like an active duty airman would *however* the reserves are more flexible and don’t appear to view staying in the same place quite as negatively.
*PV promotion*
Yes, it’s as simple as it sounds but difficult to earn. The guy who earned PV to Major from my unit absolutely deserved it and his records reflected that. He pinned on Major the same day he was officially notified. However, I don’t know how this would’ve worked (me promoting to Major) if I were an AGR vs. a TR.
*Additional Info*
--Really glad I didn’t go IMA. It truly means, “I am alone.” My friends that did this initially from active duty regretted it. IMA is for experienced reservists, in my opinion.
--Glad I saved up 6 months of pay for the transition. I worked for free for about 4-6 months. I don’t know why it takes this long, but it does. This is common, but everyone gets their pay eventually taken care of.
--Glad I didn’t claim any medical issues. There have been sweeping medical record reviews across the Air Force Reserve and people have been ambushed with “no points, no pay” notifications.
--I’m glad I went TR. The AGRs work hard for the TRs and it’s good to gain the perspective as to why. I spent 9 months on orders (which the AGRs captured for me) until I secured a civilian job (which the AGRs also helped with). I am grateful I didn’t take an AGR job initially but…
--I hope to earn an AGR position in the near future.
So I've been in the reserves as a traditional reservist for a year and would like to answer my own questions with the limited perspective I've gained.
*Is [an AGR position] worth it?*
Absolutely. Any job can stink but AGR jobs appear to be 75% Admin / 25% ops. My active duty Flight Commander job was 95% admin / 5% ops split, so this is a significant improvement.
*What do I need to know?*
Yes, you can get an active duty retirement if you have the correct type and right amount of points. Rule of thumb: 7200 points = active duty retirement. Yes, it’s more complicated than that, but that’s a good rule of thumb.
*Career Status*
As of spring 2018, from the AGRs in my squadron, it’s “no longer a thing.” 1 individual was given career status years ago and appears to benefit from it, but for the most part it’s more bark than bite. That said, it appears AGRs are more competitive for follow on assignments, development education, opportunities, etc. There are reasons for this, but chiefly it’s because their OPRs are better because they’re there full-time, which is logical.
*PCS*
Whenever you earn an assignment with PCS funding. If you’re an AGR around DC, you wouldn’t have to move to progress from ADO to Staff to CC to Staff, etc. However, if you were able to successfully string together a career of full-time assignments you would PCS just like an active duty airman would *however* the reserves are more flexible and don’t appear to view staying in the same place quite as negatively.
*PV promotion*
Yes, it’s as simple as it sounds but difficult to earn. The guy who earned PV to Major from my unit absolutely deserved it and his records reflected that. He pinned on Major the same day he was officially notified. However, I don’t know how this would’ve worked (me promoting to Major) if I were an AGR vs. a TR.
*Additional Info*
--Really glad I didn’t go IMA. It truly means, “I am alone.” My friends that did this initially from active duty regretted it. IMA is for experienced reservists, in my opinion.
--Glad I saved up 6 months of pay for the transition. I worked for free for about 4-6 months. I don’t know why it takes this long, but it does. This is common, but everyone gets their pay eventually taken care of.
--Glad I didn’t claim any medical issues. There have been sweeping medical record reviews across the Air Force Reserve and people have been ambushed with “no points, no pay” notifications.
--I’m glad I went TR. The AGRs work hard for the TRs and it’s good to gain the perspective as to why. I spent 9 months on orders (which the AGRs captured for me) until I secured a civilian job (which the AGRs also helped with). I am grateful I didn’t take an AGR job initially but…
--I hope to earn an AGR position in the near future.
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Capt (Join to see)
MSgt Hal Weeden, MBA
Thank you so much for your extremely informative post! There are many things in the reserve where reality does not match the AFI. Active Reserve, or "AGR," is especially seeped in mysticism with "career status," "sanctuary," "deliberately managed," and "retirement" at the forefront of everyone's confusion and misinformation. If you'd humor me, I'd like to discuss these terms and post information here so people have a more nuanced information source than the AFI.
CAREER STATUS---You addressed this; thank you. I've only met 1 AGR who's achieved career status and it appears to be different for enlisted vs. officers. For this SNCO, by their own admission, will be allowed to sit in their position for the next 8 years until retirement. However, I've heard career status is almost meaningless for officers.
SANCTUARY---MSgt Weeden, this is for anyone reading this and not for you as I assume you're very familiar with this. If you have anything to add, please do. The DoD will do everything in their power to prevent service members from claiming sanctuary. Specifically, if you take orders or an AGR tour that will take you into the sanctuary zone (between 18 and 20 years of active duty service) expect to sign a waiver saying you will not claim sanctuary. However, that doesn't mean an airman can't make it to an active-duty style retirement or beyond.
Example 1 -- citizen airman MSgt Smith takes an AGR tour which will take them to points equivalent to 19.2 years active duty service. However, before accepting the AGR tour they're required to sign a sanctuary waiver stating they will not claim sanctuary. MSgt Smith signs the waiver and accepts the AGR tour. Near the end of the 3 year AGR tour, MSgt Smith has performed will and his/her unit requests a tour extension (AFI 36-2132, table 2.3). Again, MSgt Smith signs a sanctuary waiver, accepts the 1 year tour extension, and earns an active duty retirement anyway. <this is theoretical, I don't know anyone who's done this>
Example 2 -- citizen airman MSgt Smith has 18 years active duty service and accepts 365 days of MPA orders. However, before accepting the MPA tour they're required to sign a sanctuary waiver stating they will not claim sanctuary. MSgt Smith signs the waiver and accepts the 365 to take him/her to 19 years of active duty service. MSgt Smith performed will and is offered another 365 days of MPA orders. Again, MSgt Smith signs a sanctuary waiver, accepts the 365 of MPAs, gains 20 years of active duty service, and earns an active duty retirement. However, MSgt Smith now accepts an E-8 billet for yet another 365 days of MPA orders. At this point MSgt Smith doesn't need to sign a sanctuary waiver because he/she is beyond that and goes on MPA orders; now MSgt Smith is just running up the score. The point of this example is that members aren't automatically retired once they hit 20 years active duty service, they're just eligible to retire. <This example is not theoretical. I know an O-5 and E-9 who do this>. Good read: https://www.arpc.afrc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1321434/sanctuary-protection-air-national-guard-and-air-force-reserve/
DELIBERATELY MANAGED---MSgt Weeden, can you shed some light on this? I've heard it's a box some can check which allows AFRC to choose everything for you, but I'm too early in my career to experience its affects.
Stay awesome!
Matt
Thank you so much for your extremely informative post! There are many things in the reserve where reality does not match the AFI. Active Reserve, or "AGR," is especially seeped in mysticism with "career status," "sanctuary," "deliberately managed," and "retirement" at the forefront of everyone's confusion and misinformation. If you'd humor me, I'd like to discuss these terms and post information here so people have a more nuanced information source than the AFI.
CAREER STATUS---You addressed this; thank you. I've only met 1 AGR who's achieved career status and it appears to be different for enlisted vs. officers. For this SNCO, by their own admission, will be allowed to sit in their position for the next 8 years until retirement. However, I've heard career status is almost meaningless for officers.
SANCTUARY---MSgt Weeden, this is for anyone reading this and not for you as I assume you're very familiar with this. If you have anything to add, please do. The DoD will do everything in their power to prevent service members from claiming sanctuary. Specifically, if you take orders or an AGR tour that will take you into the sanctuary zone (between 18 and 20 years of active duty service) expect to sign a waiver saying you will not claim sanctuary. However, that doesn't mean an airman can't make it to an active-duty style retirement or beyond.
Example 1 -- citizen airman MSgt Smith takes an AGR tour which will take them to points equivalent to 19.2 years active duty service. However, before accepting the AGR tour they're required to sign a sanctuary waiver stating they will not claim sanctuary. MSgt Smith signs the waiver and accepts the AGR tour. Near the end of the 3 year AGR tour, MSgt Smith has performed will and his/her unit requests a tour extension (AFI 36-2132, table 2.3). Again, MSgt Smith signs a sanctuary waiver, accepts the 1 year tour extension, and earns an active duty retirement anyway. <this is theoretical, I don't know anyone who's done this>
Example 2 -- citizen airman MSgt Smith has 18 years active duty service and accepts 365 days of MPA orders. However, before accepting the MPA tour they're required to sign a sanctuary waiver stating they will not claim sanctuary. MSgt Smith signs the waiver and accepts the 365 to take him/her to 19 years of active duty service. MSgt Smith performed will and is offered another 365 days of MPA orders. Again, MSgt Smith signs a sanctuary waiver, accepts the 365 of MPAs, gains 20 years of active duty service, and earns an active duty retirement. However, MSgt Smith now accepts an E-8 billet for yet another 365 days of MPA orders. At this point MSgt Smith doesn't need to sign a sanctuary waiver because he/she is beyond that and goes on MPA orders; now MSgt Smith is just running up the score. The point of this example is that members aren't automatically retired once they hit 20 years active duty service, they're just eligible to retire. <This example is not theoretical. I know an O-5 and E-9 who do this>. Good read: https://www.arpc.afrc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1321434/sanctuary-protection-air-national-guard-and-air-force-reserve/
DELIBERATELY MANAGED---MSgt Weeden, can you shed some light on this? I've heard it's a box some can check which allows AFRC to choose everything for you, but I'm too early in my career to experience its affects.
Stay awesome!
Matt
Sanctuary Protection - Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve
Applicable to: Air National Guard and Air Force ReserveSanctuary is comprised of law, policy, eligibility and ineligibility criteria for Air Force Reserve (AFR) and Active Duty Air National Guard
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MSgt Hal Weeden, MBA
Capt (Join to see), I don't recall the regulation on career status addressing enlisted differently than officers, but that may be the case. If I weren't working on my "days off" right now, I'd try to find that. I believe it is addressed in the military pay regulations instead of personnel regs, but, again, I may be mistaken. At one point I had researched pretty heavily into it because I was having to deal with a member who had been on repeated one-year counter-drug orders for over six years and had not been given orders for the next year. He ended up opting to not file for separation pay as he knew he would get at least a traditional guard/reserve retirement and would have to pay it back in the future.
As for your discussion of sanctuary, it has not been my experience that DoD will attempt to keep AGRs from entering sanctuary. Most AGR tours are for three to six years, and I don't recall any permanent AGR tour orders ever containing a sanctuary waiver. I'm not just speaking from experience with my own orders, but for any orders, as I was the funds certifying officer on thousands of all types of orders over the years. Of course, these things may vary from state to state on ANG orders. I did not certify orders when I was in the Reserve. Now, you are absolutely right about waivers being included in MPA tours, or partial mobilization tours, or temporary AGR tours, or even annual tours if they will put the member between 18 and 20 years of active duty service.
I'm not so sure that is DoD trying to prevent an active duty retirement with these waivers, as much as there are unintended fiscal issues with someone other than a permanent AGR entering sanctuary. For instance, if a member takes a 180 day MPA tour, and that puts them two months into sanctuary, there is now an unfunded requirement to come up with 22 more months of active duty days. These are not unlimited pots of days and dollars, and this also involves advance obligation of funds of the next fiscal year, which, in some circumstances, may be a violation of fiscal law and the Anti-Deficiency Act.
As for your question about "deliberately managed," I hate to disappoint you; however, I am not familiar with that term at all. A quick Google search leads me to believe this is a unique function for Reserve officers. https://www.445aw.afrc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/679740/deliberately-managed-button-on-reserve-development-plan/
As for your discussion of sanctuary, it has not been my experience that DoD will attempt to keep AGRs from entering sanctuary. Most AGR tours are for three to six years, and I don't recall any permanent AGR tour orders ever containing a sanctuary waiver. I'm not just speaking from experience with my own orders, but for any orders, as I was the funds certifying officer on thousands of all types of orders over the years. Of course, these things may vary from state to state on ANG orders. I did not certify orders when I was in the Reserve. Now, you are absolutely right about waivers being included in MPA tours, or partial mobilization tours, or temporary AGR tours, or even annual tours if they will put the member between 18 and 20 years of active duty service.
I'm not so sure that is DoD trying to prevent an active duty retirement with these waivers, as much as there are unintended fiscal issues with someone other than a permanent AGR entering sanctuary. For instance, if a member takes a 180 day MPA tour, and that puts them two months into sanctuary, there is now an unfunded requirement to come up with 22 more months of active duty days. These are not unlimited pots of days and dollars, and this also involves advance obligation of funds of the next fiscal year, which, in some circumstances, may be a violation of fiscal law and the Anti-Deficiency Act.
As for your question about "deliberately managed," I hate to disappoint you; however, I am not familiar with that term at all. A quick Google search leads me to believe this is a unique function for Reserve officers. https://www.445aw.afrc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/679740/deliberately-managed-button-on-reserve-development-plan/
Deliberately Managed Button on Reserve Development Plan
A change to the Reserve-Development Plan has been made in which members will no longer see the option to select to have their career "Deliberately Managed" when completing their R-DP. The Air Force
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Capt (Join to see)
MSgt Hal Weeden, MBA - The things you said about career status and sanctuary... is that from Reserve or Guard experience?
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MSgt Hal Weeden, MBA
Capt (Join to see) - That's partially from both, but mostly from Guard experience. I don't recall any experience with AGR orders in the Reserve, just MPA and RPA orders.
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I recommend it if you intend to stay in your area of expertise in your civilian life. I work for a DoD contractor and we prefer to hire Guard / Reserve personnel because they have access to training that keeps their skills current and can bring insights and perspective about what's happening in military organizations. If you're seeking a clean break and changing to a career field that doesn't have strong military relevance then I recommend you move on. Making up 12 years is a long term commitment that can distract you from your new goals.
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To expand on my earlier comment, I was an O-3 with 5 years on AD when I went into the MA program . I spent the next 15 as a Cat B reservist= 6 training detachment meeting per year (12 days) with a two week tour every year which I set up individually at my convenience....wherever I chose, pretty much. I was also able to pick up mandays at a local active force unit to use as training days to make the twelve days required. I could also do maydays whenever I wished to add $$ and, of course points. I retired, as you see, at O-5 and now draw retired pay as I am over 60.
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It's a well kept secret! You have many of the,same options but you have a say on how and when. Many Active Duty / manday opportunities, MPA toyrs, filling AD short falls, where yiu choose to work. So many to speak of, just cant list them all! ART and AGR positions, right in my home town! It is a choice, just prioritize why your even considering a change-first!
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I transitioned from Active duty to the Reserves back in the 70's. I eventually went back on Active Duty. My advice would be to speak to the people at the Reserve Unit you would be going to. If there is one where you plan on living, that would be the best place to start. Make sure you ask how the retirement system will change for you versus staying on AD. We all have our own reasons why we transition. Just stay true to yourself, include your family in the process and you will be fine. Get ALL the answers you need before you make a move, otherwise you could find yourself in a real mess! GOOD LUCK!
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I have friends who have done this with the Hurricane Hunters at Keesler and they love it. They have never PCSd but do a lot of TDYs. From what they tell me vacancies for promotion do not come up often because it's such a great career retention is high and they stay in until forced to retire. I haven't heard any complaints.
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I was an ANG AGR officer for 1.5 years and 8 years. Added to my previous active duty and my mandays while not AGR, I was able to retire with 24 years, 22 for pay at age 46. It was one of the best things to happen in my career. I had a lot of TDYs but never a PCS. I received a unit vacany promotion to Major at the 9-year point and a unit vacancy promotion to Lt Col. The only restriction on promotions was nothing beyond Lt Col. That was never a concern for me. The environment in the Guard was less stress than active duty, although the standards and regulations were the same. Being in the Guard with other long-time members (many in the unit over 20 years) provided for much better continuity and experience levels rarely seen on active duty. I'm not sure about comparing my experience with the Reserves, but I would certainly do it again.
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I wish I could give a definitive answer. I spent my last 10 years as an AGR before retirement, but it was in the FLANG, not reserves. The things that appealed the most in my situation (no PCS in that time but full time unit mission instead of Weekend Warrior work, sufficient promotion opportunity, Career status presumed, etc.) are the specific things I can't address for the Reserve variant. I came to the unit already as an O-4, so I knew that I would have to find a billet if I wanted to make higher, but if I chose not to, the expectation was that I could get to sanctuary for active. Although the contract "is at the pleasure of the commander and Governor," the expectation was do the job and the orders would be extended and, in our position with a full time mission, there were plenty of examples of that happening so I felt comfortable even if "their lips were moving." All I can say was that it was well worth it for me, but it looks like you are asking the right questions.
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While I am not an AGR, I have many friends that are. From what they tell me, its a great gig and the best of both worlds. Its like active duty, except that you never PCS or deploy. According to them, the pay is better than an active duty slot of equal rank (I don't know the details of why though). I also don't know about promotions. But AGR is a sought after position that is difficult to get. If you like the area and the unit, I would go for it.
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