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M*A*S*H was one of those TV series that did a fabulous job of keeping America's interest for many years. There were a lot of really great concepts that have come out of the series through its wit and writing.
My thought for the day revolves around the loss of innocence in war. There are UAV pilots responsible for Battle Damage Assessments after the drone strikes that are suffering PTSD from the realization that many of their missions resulted in the deaths of children. There are families that are broken forever, fathers, husbands, sons, mothers, daughters, wives, that will not be coming home and many that will never be the person that left.
What are your thoughts?
Is a victory worth the victims?
My thought for the day revolves around the loss of innocence in war. There are UAV pilots responsible for Battle Damage Assessments after the drone strikes that are suffering PTSD from the realization that many of their missions resulted in the deaths of children. There are families that are broken forever, fathers, husbands, sons, mothers, daughters, wives, that will not be coming home and many that will never be the person that left.
What are your thoughts?
Is a victory worth the victims?
Ethics
Values
Warfare
Combat
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 20
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In many ways I identify with Hawkeye. I feel the collateral damage to our soldiers and their families and the families of the innocent. As a Meteorologist I was not on the front lines of any conflict but the conflict for us was the Cold War. We were close at Ramstein a couple of times of being in the theatre of armageddon, with nukes, nerve agents and terrorist attacks. It saddens me of the German families East and West that were separated from loved ones and how the breaking of the wall was and is a tangible reminder of what can be and what was.
So this war now is against for the large part invisible foes with no regard for collateral damage (theirs and ours) so that kind of war threatens the world and sadly crazy generals can get fat off of young men's blood. I cannot answer this question because of the complexity of the question and some of the points by Hawkeye.
As Air Force we would go to the day room and watch this show together, kind of like a family with a common objective in a time when we were treated as lowlifes. That kind of mindset permeated the forces with politicians and liberals were the best and the brightest and I scoff at that inanity. Hyperbole has replaced pride in our nation. I for one am sick of it. Sick of battles across the world, sick of people dying needlessly and sad that millions of Jews died while the world played politics. vis-a-vis, The White Papers. Honor does matter and war may be a kind of hell and the rest semantics.
So this war now is against for the large part invisible foes with no regard for collateral damage (theirs and ours) so that kind of war threatens the world and sadly crazy generals can get fat off of young men's blood. I cannot answer this question because of the complexity of the question and some of the points by Hawkeye.
As Air Force we would go to the day room and watch this show together, kind of like a family with a common objective in a time when we were treated as lowlifes. That kind of mindset permeated the forces with politicians and liberals were the best and the brightest and I scoff at that inanity. Hyperbole has replaced pride in our nation. I for one am sick of it. Sick of battles across the world, sick of people dying needlessly and sad that millions of Jews died while the world played politics. vis-a-vis, The White Papers. Honor does matter and war may be a kind of hell and the rest semantics.
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So long as we continue our practice of categorizing ourselves by race, creed, religion, country, nationality, etc... there will always be war. It's much easier to attack "other" for resources than it is to attack someone you consider family/friends/partners. Until humanity ignores all the imaginary and meaningless labels and works together, war is easier than partnership...
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Never thought on it much. Training takes over immediately. That's also why we drill constantly. If you have ever come under fire......You know,and it finally becomes clear. And your thankful.
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War is war, hell is hell. I suspect eternal torment with the beast might be more than most of us would want to endure. War is ugly but temporal and like all other things of this world can be overcome. If not here, then eternally. Eternal damnation never ends. I would try to avoid that.
Is a victory worth the victims? It depends on how you define victory and victims I guess. You could reverse the question and ask Is a loss worth the victims? What would the price of losing be? Would we want to bear it?
Is a victory worth the victims? It depends on how you define victory and victims I guess. You could reverse the question and ask Is a loss worth the victims? What would the price of losing be? Would we want to bear it?
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The problem with the question is that it is subjective on both sides of the question. What is the individual's view of war, and what is the individual's concept of Hel? I have never been to war so I do not know first hand about the horror of war. I have seen the aftermath in the PTSD related issues that many veterans face upon their return home.
What I think is more worrisome is the circumstances under which a politician is willing to send people to fight in a war. It is sad that throughout history, religion is the largest killer of people. It is supposed to be the sanctuary that keeps our spirit guided, not the catalyst for slaughtering our fellow man.
Wars have been fought over resources since time began. From wars over farmland to wars over oil, it is all about you have it, I want it, let's fight for it.
What I think is more worrisome is the circumstances under which a politician is willing to send people to fight in a war. It is sad that throughout history, religion is the largest killer of people. It is supposed to be the sanctuary that keeps our spirit guided, not the catalyst for slaughtering our fellow man.
Wars have been fought over resources since time began. From wars over farmland to wars over oil, it is all about you have it, I want it, let's fight for it.
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I think the writers on M*A*S*H had a great skill in coming up with interesting ways to showcase of the issues Service Members face while at war. Think of the characters they used. People back home could easily relate to them. The in bodied some of the very same characteristics that we still see today. The Officer coming up on retirement, the gun-ho Officer trying to advance their career, someone from a long line of successful family members, a young scared kid trying to become a man while still holding on to his teddy bear and someone trying by all means possible to get out only to realize some of the good that the military did for him and ended up staying in the one place he spent years trying to get out of. Then there's Hawkeye. Hawkeye was often what I would consider "the voice of the public thought". He was the one that said what probably a lot of people were thinking.
The Korean War has gone down in history as the "Forgotten War"; sandwiched between the heroic victory over Europe and Asia and the insanity of Vietnam. Yet, the actions taken over there on those frozen hill tops where many of us have been to are nothing more than just as heroic as D-Day.
Is War Hell or is it worse than Hell? That's a hard question to answer. Does the impact on the civilian population hurt, sure does. Do we go in specifically targeting women and children? In my time in combat we didn't. But look back throughout all of history. From when the first rock was thrown in anger to laser guided bombs that can be sent through a window, innocents have always been a factor. Daily, we see on the news bodies lined up. Women, children, the elderly are the ones the News features their bodies flooding the TVs of those of us not there.
Should war exist? No it should but it will. War is one of those things that humans seem to not live without for better or for worse.
The Korean War has gone down in history as the "Forgotten War"; sandwiched between the heroic victory over Europe and Asia and the insanity of Vietnam. Yet, the actions taken over there on those frozen hill tops where many of us have been to are nothing more than just as heroic as D-Day.
Is War Hell or is it worse than Hell? That's a hard question to answer. Does the impact on the civilian population hurt, sure does. Do we go in specifically targeting women and children? In my time in combat we didn't. But look back throughout all of history. From when the first rock was thrown in anger to laser guided bombs that can be sent through a window, innocents have always been a factor. Daily, we see on the news bodies lined up. Women, children, the elderly are the ones the News features their bodies flooding the TVs of those of us not there.
Should war exist? No it should but it will. War is one of those things that humans seem to not live without for better or for worse.
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It's a sad, sad world we live in, torn by extremists, ignoranuses, and misleads. Yes, the quote in the picture is great. If we could only mass-distribute it around the world, especially into the hands of extremist groups.
The biggest challenges however are tracking and targeting them, and unfortunately there are too many of them scattered all around the world with high concentrations in the Middle East and Northern Africa. But our job as peace seeking Americans is NEVER STOP OR GIVE UP. We might not get them all, but surely many innocent victims out there appreciate our efforts in not giving up on them.
The biggest challenges however are tracking and targeting them, and unfortunately there are too many of them scattered all around the world with high concentrations in the Middle East and Northern Africa. But our job as peace seeking Americans is NEVER STOP OR GIVE UP. We might not get them all, but surely many innocent victims out there appreciate our efforts in not giving up on them.
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I'm sorry but the question is meaningless.
Or, at least not one to which a real answer can be formulated since both "war" and "hell" are highly individualized.
From a theological perspective, if I go to Hell I stand a chance of going to War but no chance of going to Heaven. However, if I go to War I stand a chance of going to Hell AND a chance of going to Heaven. THEREFORE, from a theological perspective "War" is preferable to "Hell".
From a personal perspective, never having been to Hell I can't compare it to War just as never having been pregnant I can't compare it to being a parent.
Or, at least not one to which a real answer can be formulated since both "war" and "hell" are highly individualized.
From a theological perspective, if I go to Hell I stand a chance of going to War but no chance of going to Heaven. However, if I go to War I stand a chance of going to Hell AND a chance of going to Heaven. THEREFORE, from a theological perspective "War" is preferable to "Hell".
From a personal perspective, never having been to Hell I can't compare it to War just as never having been pregnant I can't compare it to being a parent.
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COL Ted Mc
1LT L S Lieutenant; As long as you remember that "The Holocaust" accounted for approximately 9/15ths of the Nazi regimes deliberate murders based on "racial" characteristics, I'll almost agree with you.
In "Hell" you are aware that you are suffering and there is no ending to it. At the end, in the death camps, you stopped being aware that you were suffering and there was finally an end to it.
In "Hell" you are aware that you are suffering and there is no ending to it. At the end, in the death camps, you stopped being aware that you were suffering and there was finally an end to it.
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COL Ted Mc
1LT L S Lieutenant; Please do not think that I am diminishing the horror of what was done to your family in the name of "racial purity" by Nazi murder machine by pointing out that that horror was a part of an equally repugnant bigger horror. I don't do that any more than you dismiss the other 9,000,000+ victims of the Nazi murder machine as irrelevant simply because they weren't Jewish.
You say "NAZI's burned Jewish babies ALIVE on the pyres in the death camps, it is documented. Hell cannot be worse than that." and my response is "Yes it can.". On a Nazi pyre you only got "burned to death" once. In Hell you get "burned to death" forever.
When you say " Secular non-religious forces crushed the NAZIS and stopped the Holocaust, saving the remaining Jews of Europe, including my relatives." you are correct. Mind you, those "secular, non-religious, forces" weren't motivated by "stopping the Holocaust" (since most people didn't know about it at the time) and the governments which sent those "secular, non-religious, forces" hadn't been overly interested in assisting Jews escape the Nazis before WWII started. "Saving the Jews" was a bonus which was completely irrelevant to the politico-strategic decisions of the day.
You say "NAZI's burned Jewish babies ALIVE on the pyres in the death camps, it is documented. Hell cannot be worse than that." and my response is "Yes it can.". On a Nazi pyre you only got "burned to death" once. In Hell you get "burned to death" forever.
When you say " Secular non-religious forces crushed the NAZIS and stopped the Holocaust, saving the remaining Jews of Europe, including my relatives." you are correct. Mind you, those "secular, non-religious, forces" weren't motivated by "stopping the Holocaust" (since most people didn't know about it at the time) and the governments which sent those "secular, non-religious, forces" hadn't been overly interested in assisting Jews escape the Nazis before WWII started. "Saving the Jews" was a bonus which was completely irrelevant to the politico-strategic decisions of the day.
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