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After reading a discussion led by SFC John Gates It appears some veterans over - qualify themselves when looking for work after the military.
What are your job interview failures? And how did you rise up above the cocky stereotype, or were you just unprepared, lacked civilian communication skills, or didn't do enough research on the company?
Or did you have feel you were owed the job, or perhaps your wage requirements were beyond expectations...I am attempting to dig deep into the matter why so many vets struggle to land that perfect civilian job...so you may need to get uncomfortable and let down your guards and reveal some of your weaknesses.
This isn't so much about failures, but How we corrected those failures, your story will help others...we all have issues, some of us were a little pro-active about getting interview practice, research, and learning the civilian lingo. What did you do?
What are your job interview failures? And how did you rise up above the cocky stereotype, or were you just unprepared, lacked civilian communication skills, or didn't do enough research on the company?
Or did you have feel you were owed the job, or perhaps your wage requirements were beyond expectations...I am attempting to dig deep into the matter why so many vets struggle to land that perfect civilian job...so you may need to get uncomfortable and let down your guards and reveal some of your weaknesses.
This isn't so much about failures, but How we corrected those failures, your story will help others...we all have issues, some of us were a little pro-active about getting interview practice, research, and learning the civilian lingo. What did you do?
Posted in these groups: 
Interview
Interview
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 11
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CW3 Eddy Vleugels
Successfully conducting job interviews is a learned skill. Take time to learn about interviewing...about the job market...about dressing for success.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
SSG Colette S. I have as well. It really makes me wonder what people are using for thought processes.
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MSG Brad Sand
CW3 Eddy Vleugels
Successful interviewing is a two way street. I have run into some pretty bad interviewers and some pretty bad interviewees. In my opinion, the bad interviewer is the bigger problem...the two together can be very interesting to watch. Something I like watching a car wreck happen in slow motion.
Successful interviewing is a two way street. I have run into some pretty bad interviewers and some pretty bad interviewees. In my opinion, the bad interviewer is the bigger problem...the two together can be very interesting to watch. Something I like watching a car wreck happen in slow motion.
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My biggest problem is that I have a rather strong personality and I kind of in a sense, hijacked my first interview when I got out. I was not being too assertive but I asked questions back and expected more of a dialogue rather than them asking me questions and filling in their bubbles on their sheets when I replied. I drove almost an hour one way for the interview that was 10 mins long.
For my next few interviews I toned it down a bit and bit my tongue and answered their questions except these interviews were exactly what I expected the first time (dialogue) and I was kind of unprepared! ouch. I did end up getting the position I wanted am very happy with it.
For my next few interviews I toned it down a bit and bit my tongue and answered their questions except these interviews were exactly what I expected the first time (dialogue) and I was kind of unprepared! ouch. I did end up getting the position I wanted am very happy with it.
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"Looking at your resume, I can see you were in the Army. Did you kill anyone?"
I got up and walked out of the interview at that point.
I got up and walked out of the interview at that point.
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MSG Brad Sand
SPC James Mcneil You wasted a great oppurtunity. You could have said, "Not since the last interviewer didn't offer me the position I was applying for with a bonus package I did not deserve?"
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SPC James Mcneil
That would have been epic. I was at a complete loss for words when that happened though.
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My biggest problem landing a job was my language. I was up front and honest about how I use words like damn, shit, and fuck in everyday conversations. True story, most employers don't want you to use 'foul' language.
My job at now, I was as open and honest as could be about all my weaknesses, but when it came to my language I told them that while I do lack a filter, I am working on it and showing results.
They called me back for two more interviews. I spent about 9.5 hours interviewing and I got the job. I love it here and my boss enjoys my candor. He said it's hard to find employs that will be transparent on things because they are afraid of hurting feelings and losing their job.
My point being: Be yourself in every interview. Be open and honest. That way the employer will know what they are getting when they hire you and won't have any nasty surprises like foul language, which is pretty common among the military folks.
My job at now, I was as open and honest as could be about all my weaknesses, but when it came to my language I told them that while I do lack a filter, I am working on it and showing results.
They called me back for two more interviews. I spent about 9.5 hours interviewing and I got the job. I love it here and my boss enjoys my candor. He said it's hard to find employs that will be transparent on things because they are afraid of hurting feelings and losing their job.
My point being: Be yourself in every interview. Be open and honest. That way the employer will know what they are getting when they hire you and won't have any nasty surprises like foul language, which is pretty common among the military folks.
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Sgt Martin V.
The way I have worked around my lack of filter is that I let everything out at home in everyday convo with the wife (NOT directed at her lol ) so by the time I'm at work or the store I'm good.
Your on point with the last part about interviews. During mine that landed my job I didn't tell them about the foul language because I've been working on it (and literally pause like 2 seconds from when I want to reply to actually replying lol). What I did tell them is that I have a strong personality and that I am working on toning it down and listening more.
Your on point with the last part about interviews. During mine that landed my job I didn't tell them about the foul language because I've been working on it (and literally pause like 2 seconds from when I want to reply to actually replying lol). What I did tell them is that I have a strong personality and that I am working on toning it down and listening more.
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SPC Stewart Smith
Haha. Imagine how much money our units would have collected if there were swear jars.
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Preparation is key, on top of real desire for the position you are interviewing for.
My company (Cardinal Health) receives over 1 million resumes for 5000 positions on an annual basis. HR whittles those down to anywhere from 20 to 100 resumes per submission and passes them to hiring managers in batches. We further whittle the pile down to 5 or so for phone interviews.
There are typically only a few resumes where someone actually tailored their resume to the position description; I'd say of the 5 -10 I would set aside, 2-4 actually come close to matching the position description. So most folks make it easy for the hiring manager to toss their resume in the trash can.
The phone screen is intended to save time for both you and the hiring manager. Because honestly, most people -- civilians included -- "just want a job."
So, to shorten this down, an interview is built to determine your preparation:
1. Questions about the company are done to determine if you're really interested in our company or "just want a job." It also helps us understand if you actually do prepare or do research.
2. Will you fit the team and culture? Pay attention to the interviewer and how they act. Be natural and friendly. And DEFINITELY use as a future networking opportunity or keep that option open.
3. Do you have the skills necessary to do the job
Keep in mind. You are your own company selling services. Are you selling what they want to buy? Just like a company posting "requests for proposals" for vendors to provide services, the hiring process is exactly the same way.
My company has a "Veterans Professional Advancement Course" given monthly by volunteers, both prior military and civilian. We have hiring managers and HR folks come in. It's like TAP or whatever the new programs are, but different. We talk about all of the things you are talking about and also help translate resumes and work on interviews using mock interviews. The team provides direct and specific feedback to help you. These are folks who live and breath corporate culture. It's free to the veterans. You can either show up or dial in remotely.
Copy and past this link: http://www.cardinalhealth.com/mps/public/!ut/p/c0/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjA3cDAwtfZ18fV2NTA09HL_dAYz8TQ4NQM_2CbEdFADfU32U!/?WCM_PORTLET=PC_7_20G008MCMLCQD0I6KL912K3005_WCM&WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/mps/wcm/connect/us/en/careers/military/militaryresourcesupport
My company (Cardinal Health) receives over 1 million resumes for 5000 positions on an annual basis. HR whittles those down to anywhere from 20 to 100 resumes per submission and passes them to hiring managers in batches. We further whittle the pile down to 5 or so for phone interviews.
There are typically only a few resumes where someone actually tailored their resume to the position description; I'd say of the 5 -10 I would set aside, 2-4 actually come close to matching the position description. So most folks make it easy for the hiring manager to toss their resume in the trash can.
The phone screen is intended to save time for both you and the hiring manager. Because honestly, most people -- civilians included -- "just want a job."
So, to shorten this down, an interview is built to determine your preparation:
1. Questions about the company are done to determine if you're really interested in our company or "just want a job." It also helps us understand if you actually do prepare or do research.
2. Will you fit the team and culture? Pay attention to the interviewer and how they act. Be natural and friendly. And DEFINITELY use as a future networking opportunity or keep that option open.
3. Do you have the skills necessary to do the job
Keep in mind. You are your own company selling services. Are you selling what they want to buy? Just like a company posting "requests for proposals" for vendors to provide services, the hiring process is exactly the same way.
My company has a "Veterans Professional Advancement Course" given monthly by volunteers, both prior military and civilian. We have hiring managers and HR folks come in. It's like TAP or whatever the new programs are, but different. We talk about all of the things you are talking about and also help translate resumes and work on interviews using mock interviews. The team provides direct and specific feedback to help you. These are folks who live and breath corporate culture. It's free to the veterans. You can either show up or dial in remotely.
Copy and past this link: http://www.cardinalhealth.com/mps/public/!ut/p/c0/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjA3cDAwtfZ18fV2NTA09HL_dAYz8TQ4NQM_2CbEdFADfU32U!/?WCM_PORTLET=PC_7_20G008MCMLCQD0I6KL912K3005_WCM&WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/mps/wcm/connect/us/en/careers/military/militaryresourcesupport
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COL Vincent Stoneking
GySgt (Join to see) well stated. A fundamental fact that MOST people miss is that the hiring process, in all but a very few cases, is all about subtraction. I have 50 and want 10 (or whatever #'s apply). I have 10 qualified resumes and want to interview 6 people. I've interviewed 6 people and can only hire one. It's only at that LAST step that the focus is on who is the best.
In the rest of the process, it's all about "who can I rule out the quickest." This means that flaws in early presentation far outweigh and talent, skills, or experience a person may bring to the table. That's not a complaint, just a fact. It really shouldn't be all that surprising to military people, as that's EXACTLY how boards work.
I've received cover letters addressed to me, but clearly addressing a different posting (sometimes even NAMING the job I don't have....), resumes clearly tailored for different work, etc. Generally, these last much less than 10 seconds before being appropriately filed.
In the interviews, in addition to the "tell me about the organization" questions (which I also do - for the same reasons), I add "tell me about the position" questions - to see if the person actually read the announcement and if they UNDERSTAND the job. And then the biggie - "Why do you want to work here?"
For those who don't know, there IS a right answer to that last question. It is composed of three elements:
1. I believe this organization has a great culture, which I would like to be a part of and would be able to constructively contribute to.
2. This is the kind of work that I know how to do and like to do. I would enjoy it and believe I can make a real contribution to YOUR goals. (note last two words).
3. This position fits in perfectly with my long-term goals (which you should have already worked in, unless they lead with this question) and I could see working on my goals here for quite some time. (Note: No need for claiming undying loyalty, I just want to feel like I won't have to hire this position again in 9 months...)
In the rest of the process, it's all about "who can I rule out the quickest." This means that flaws in early presentation far outweigh and talent, skills, or experience a person may bring to the table. That's not a complaint, just a fact. It really shouldn't be all that surprising to military people, as that's EXACTLY how boards work.
I've received cover letters addressed to me, but clearly addressing a different posting (sometimes even NAMING the job I don't have....), resumes clearly tailored for different work, etc. Generally, these last much less than 10 seconds before being appropriately filed.
In the interviews, in addition to the "tell me about the organization" questions (which I also do - for the same reasons), I add "tell me about the position" questions - to see if the person actually read the announcement and if they UNDERSTAND the job. And then the biggie - "Why do you want to work here?"
For those who don't know, there IS a right answer to that last question. It is composed of three elements:
1. I believe this organization has a great culture, which I would like to be a part of and would be able to constructively contribute to.
2. This is the kind of work that I know how to do and like to do. I would enjoy it and believe I can make a real contribution to YOUR goals. (note last two words).
3. This position fits in perfectly with my long-term goals (which you should have already worked in, unless they lead with this question) and I could see working on my goals here for quite some time. (Note: No need for claiming undying loyalty, I just want to feel like I won't have to hire this position again in 9 months...)
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GySgt (Join to see)
Great add-on and absolutely right on. Especially the "who can I rule out the quickest" comment. That's absolutely what happens. Attention to detail is what separates the cream. Those who put in the effort and prepare can get all the way to the final round. Everyone needs to remember that while this is a competition, the hiring still comes down to "round peg, round hole" fit. So if you've made it to the final round, you're doing well -- so don't get discouraged. If your are getting a lot of "thanks but no thanks" or no responses, reevaluate your resume and approach . . .. . and network.
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When I retired I initially did like a lot of Veterans, wished upon coming back to my position just as a Civilian...queue sad trombone sound.
When that failed I had a recent retiree friend help me craft a resume and get it uploaded to USA Jobs. I received a notification fairly quickly from Redstone Arsenal for a telephone interview, I was excited, I figured "I got this". Once the interview came along I found out just how unprepared I was for it.
They had some fairly straightforward questions which they seemed to be content with, but the kicker question was "How are you with doing high level briefings to Senior Officers?" I thought that was a no-brainer, I've been doing briefings to them throughout my career. Well, let's just say my "take my word for it" approach did not work. I never got a call back.
I do believe interview practice and how to sell yourself became my new mantra, it worked. My next phone interview went very well, and I've been a DOD Civilian for the past three years.
When that failed I had a recent retiree friend help me craft a resume and get it uploaded to USA Jobs. I received a notification fairly quickly from Redstone Arsenal for a telephone interview, I was excited, I figured "I got this". Once the interview came along I found out just how unprepared I was for it.
They had some fairly straightforward questions which they seemed to be content with, but the kicker question was "How are you with doing high level briefings to Senior Officers?" I thought that was a no-brainer, I've been doing briefings to them throughout my career. Well, let's just say my "take my word for it" approach did not work. I never got a call back.
I do believe interview practice and how to sell yourself became my new mantra, it worked. My next phone interview went very well, and I've been a DOD Civilian for the past three years.
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MSgt Michael Durkee
SSgt Alexander Ingram Without question, I would have done much better in person. Especially based on my Service connected hearing loss.
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PO2 (Join to see)
I had my first phone interview for the FAA recently and it went terrible. I had less than 24 hours to prepare for it and they asked a lot more technical questions than I was prepared for. The worst part for me was not having a face to look at during the interview. That tiny little thing threw my concentration way off and I found myself stammering and struggling with even the easy questions. I think I would be ok with never doing that again. Bring me the board interview any day of the week.
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I have interviewed hundreds of folks, one particular interviewee came in jeans, t-shirt, and flip flops. This was a professional office position. Needless to say, wasn't hired.
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My first interview on leaving the Army got me the job, but it was a failure.
I was running scared. I learned that I was being RIF'd and had just a few weeks to find something. I had a wife and a child to support.
Fortunately, I was stationed in Hawaii and liked it there. I went to an employment agency and they got me an interview with a Life Insurance company that wanted me to enter a management trainee program. Well, that is what they said. What they really wanted was someone to sell life insurance. I didn't discover that until I was committed to the job. I worked at it for six months, sold one policy to a former sergeant, and was let go.
I then shipped my car to the West Coast and took off in search of a real career. I had a vague idea of what I wanted and got as far as Denver when a tip sent me north to Fort Collins where a new startup ad agency was located. I camped in their lobby until they hired me.
The truth is that I didn't have the funds to look further. They were going to hire me or else.
I took a job at a ridiculously low rate of pay but got GI bill payments for OJT to supplement my income and never looked back.
I was running scared. I learned that I was being RIF'd and had just a few weeks to find something. I had a wife and a child to support.
Fortunately, I was stationed in Hawaii and liked it there. I went to an employment agency and they got me an interview with a Life Insurance company that wanted me to enter a management trainee program. Well, that is what they said. What they really wanted was someone to sell life insurance. I didn't discover that until I was committed to the job. I worked at it for six months, sold one policy to a former sergeant, and was let go.
I then shipped my car to the West Coast and took off in search of a real career. I had a vague idea of what I wanted and got as far as Denver when a tip sent me north to Fort Collins where a new startup ad agency was located. I camped in their lobby until they hired me.
The truth is that I didn't have the funds to look further. They were going to hire me or else.
I took a job at a ridiculously low rate of pay but got GI bill payments for OJT to supplement my income and never looked back.
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I've interviewed and sat in on dozens of interviews over the last few years (an a technical SME).
A couple of things come to mind:
- Nobody is "overqualified" for a job. Business' want a person that can do the job for the salary that is budgeted for the position, period. There is a possibility that the budget will not allow for the salary that an individual deserves, but if you're hungry enough, or you want a "foot in the door" at a company that you would really like to work for, tell the interviewer as much. Something as simple as "I'm excited to work for this company, and I'm willing to come in at the 'ground floor' so I have the opportunity to move up in time.
- Look for the opportunity to contribute to the team. Every hiring manager is looking to see what you can contribute... help them find that, and give them examples of things you've done in the past that are similar in nature and led to success.
- You don't have to know everything, but you need to be able to contribute while you get up to speed.
- Personality matters. We all know that annoying guy that got assigned to our unit that nobody wants to work with. In civilian jobs, that guy doesn't get hired. Don't be that guy. I've known a ton of "geeks" that were brilliant technically, but don't get hired because they can't talk to PEOPLE.
- Relax, smile, and above all else ask yourself "Is this where *I* want to work?" an interview is a two way street, you're looking for a match of need and ability.
- The hiring manager will usually make up their mind in the first five minutes of the interview. Make 'em smile, make 'em laugh in that time and you're golden.
A couple of things come to mind:
- Nobody is "overqualified" for a job. Business' want a person that can do the job for the salary that is budgeted for the position, period. There is a possibility that the budget will not allow for the salary that an individual deserves, but if you're hungry enough, or you want a "foot in the door" at a company that you would really like to work for, tell the interviewer as much. Something as simple as "I'm excited to work for this company, and I'm willing to come in at the 'ground floor' so I have the opportunity to move up in time.
- Look for the opportunity to contribute to the team. Every hiring manager is looking to see what you can contribute... help them find that, and give them examples of things you've done in the past that are similar in nature and led to success.
- You don't have to know everything, but you need to be able to contribute while you get up to speed.
- Personality matters. We all know that annoying guy that got assigned to our unit that nobody wants to work with. In civilian jobs, that guy doesn't get hired. Don't be that guy. I've known a ton of "geeks" that were brilliant technically, but don't get hired because they can't talk to PEOPLE.
- Relax, smile, and above all else ask yourself "Is this where *I* want to work?" an interview is a two way street, you're looking for a match of need and ability.
- The hiring manager will usually make up their mind in the first five minutes of the interview. Make 'em smile, make 'em laugh in that time and you're golden.
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