Posted on Aug 12, 2015
Lawful Orders, Who can tell if an order is unlawful?
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I am curious as to how many active duty personnel if given the order to engage American civilians in a Martial Law setting would do so?
Orders
Constitution
Law
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 25
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We had emergency law during Katrina etc. When people talk about martial law it is almost always in this tyrranical sense... Along with all the other conspiracies. As almost all of us are not law professors, proving that "I" was right refusing an order.... good luck.
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IMO the situation would dictate what actions that are needed to be taken.
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SPC Steven Ward
I am a III% er and continue to uphold my Oath. I am nervous due to the purge of our military and the current administration.
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CPT (Join to see)
SPC Steven Ward, I fully understand, I am just as nervous and for the same reasons.
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If you feel order is illegal and your chain of command doesn’t agree. The commanding officer will file court martial orders and you will be tried. The prosecutor (trial counsel ) must prove the order was legal the defense will try to show it as not legal. Court will vote on verdict. You win it was illegal. Your home free then people issuing orders may be charged but you are home free
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Depends on what they're doing. Criminal acts and terrorism know no color/creed.
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I had a fellow soldier catch an Article 15 for disobeying an unlawful order, so at this point, I'm not so sure we can make the right decision anymore without some kind of repercussion. I haven't decided for sure yet, but it might be enough to keep me from reenlistment.
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Our police forces especially the department of Homeland security) are far too militarize now.
The military should never be used as a mean of war against US citizens(Posse Comitatus). Any such orders to do so are a violation of (Posse Comitatus), which carries more rank than anything unless the act itself is absolved by Congressional Action.
Now martial law to protect other US Citizens property from destruction and thievery in a time of emergency is a different ball-game. In such cases, even an individual soldier is authorized to make summary judgements within the bounds of lawful orders. I guess I could word this better but I am not up to it ATM.
The military should never be used as a mean of war against US citizens(Posse Comitatus). Any such orders to do so are a violation of (Posse Comitatus), which carries more rank than anything unless the act itself is absolved by Congressional Action.
Now martial law to protect other US Citizens property from destruction and thievery in a time of emergency is a different ball-game. In such cases, even an individual soldier is authorized to make summary judgements within the bounds of lawful orders. I guess I could word this better but I am not up to it ATM.
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Only you can until it goes to trial. You have to know as any reasonable person would that an order is not lawful. If you do not know, but think it is and do not have time to research you have to assume it is lawful.
An example would be. You are in Afghanistan you took fire and then they ran away. You can now see them in a position across a valley. Your PL gets on the horn for some arty to make them go away. They tell him that it is in Pakistan and it is a no go. Your PL then tells you that you are going over there and take care of business. He knows it is an illegal order. You on the other hand do not. So you do it. There are a million things that are going to come into play when it goes to trial. Did you have access to maps, what rank were you, and things that I can't even think of right now. We you acting as a reasonable person?
An example would be. You are in Afghanistan you took fire and then they ran away. You can now see them in a position across a valley. Your PL gets on the horn for some arty to make them go away. They tell him that it is in Pakistan and it is a no go. Your PL then tells you that you are going over there and take care of business. He knows it is an illegal order. You on the other hand do not. So you do it. There are a million things that are going to come into play when it goes to trial. Did you have access to maps, what rank were you, and things that I can't even think of right now. We you acting as a reasonable person?
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SPC Christopher Perrien
I think as long as you have a good case for not knowing where the border is, you are safe from serious repercussions following an assumed lawful order, barring an international incident of course, or learning you are across and not acting/confirming orders at that time. Now if this mountain is commonly known as over the border, or it is apparent to be outside your rules of engagement. you could be in a world of "stuff"..
HOWEVER, how much "pull" does your PL have? Might be unwise career wise to disobey if he is in the "in-crowd" so to speak.
I would not knowingly step over a border , for any reason, except rescuing comrades.
HOWEVER, how much "pull" does your PL have? Might be unwise career wise to disobey if he is in the "in-crowd" so to speak.
I would not knowingly step over a border , for any reason, except rescuing comrades.
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The Constitution does states to protect against all enemy, foreign and domestic. I mean, everyone has taken the oath when they enlist.
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