Posted on Mar 15, 2023
What is the likelihood of making E5 as an E4 going from Army National Guard to Active Duty?
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I've become pretty fed-up with being in the Army national guard, and I have no path to promotion for at least another 5 years as the NCO's above me in my state have no intention of retiring anytime soon. I'm thinking of going active duty, but as a 6.5 year specialist, if I switch to active duty, what are my chances of actually making E5 before I hit the 10 year mark and I get forced out? I fear that when I go active duty, I'll be treated more like I'm fresh to the Army as my national guard service might be looked down upon by active duty folks. Plus, I never got any awards, deployments, schooling done (other than BLC), and I'm not entirely sure how the promotion points work on the active side.
Worth noting that I'm 32 and I'd be one of the elderly E4s walking around active duty.
Worth noting that I'm 32 and I'd be one of the elderly E4s walking around active duty.
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Transfer
Promotion Points
Transfer Promotion Points
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 9
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SPC (Join to see), it is disappointing to hear about your experience in the NG.
First, promotions are pretty standard across all components of the Army and can be found in AR 600-8-19. Aspiring Sergeants should know a few key regulations (including that one) going into Basic Leader Course.
Second, talk to an AD recruiter, like SFC (Join to see). He may be able to tell you how dense your current MOS is. This may given you an idea of what and where opportunities exist.
Third, you did not indicate the number of promotion points you have, probably because it doesn't matter much in the NG, but in the other two components it can keep you from getting slated for promotion if you are way down on the OML. You can do things to increase your chances:
1. create and IDP in ACT. It can show you the OASS classes you can self-enroll in to increase your promotion points for self-development.
2. max your ACFT (everyone should have a record by April).
3. max your weapons qualification (go to a range to practice, plenty of private ranges offer significant discounts to NG Soldiers).
4. know your MOS and basic Soldier skills inside and out. Get ahold of the Skill level 2,3,4 MOS book so you know what to expect at higher skill levels. (you will be re-boarded for E5 in person)
5. be proactive when you show up to BA, motivate your peers. If you work in a shop, there should be plenty to do, if not train on your basic Soldier tasks.
Finally, you will most likely be treated like you are fresh out of basic if you switch to AD. You have been in for 6.5 years, and since you haven't deployed, that means you have worked for the Army for about 240 days compared to an equivalent AD Solider's 2200 days. How you conduct yourself will really determine how you are treated in the long run. In another 10 years, it won't matter if you continue to develop yourself to "be all you can be".
First, promotions are pretty standard across all components of the Army and can be found in AR 600-8-19. Aspiring Sergeants should know a few key regulations (including that one) going into Basic Leader Course.
Second, talk to an AD recruiter, like SFC (Join to see). He may be able to tell you how dense your current MOS is. This may given you an idea of what and where opportunities exist.
Third, you did not indicate the number of promotion points you have, probably because it doesn't matter much in the NG, but in the other two components it can keep you from getting slated for promotion if you are way down on the OML. You can do things to increase your chances:
1. create and IDP in ACT. It can show you the OASS classes you can self-enroll in to increase your promotion points for self-development.
2. max your ACFT (everyone should have a record by April).
3. max your weapons qualification (go to a range to practice, plenty of private ranges offer significant discounts to NG Soldiers).
4. know your MOS and basic Soldier skills inside and out. Get ahold of the Skill level 2,3,4 MOS book so you know what to expect at higher skill levels. (you will be re-boarded for E5 in person)
5. be proactive when you show up to BA, motivate your peers. If you work in a shop, there should be plenty to do, if not train on your basic Soldier tasks.
Finally, you will most likely be treated like you are fresh out of basic if you switch to AD. You have been in for 6.5 years, and since you haven't deployed, that means you have worked for the Army for about 240 days compared to an equivalent AD Solider's 2200 days. How you conduct yourself will really determine how you are treated in the long run. In another 10 years, it won't matter if you continue to develop yourself to "be all you can be".
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With the time remaining you should be able to get promoted, as long as the Army has the slots available. As for transferring, just perform, that will quickly shut down the rookie I.D.
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Speaking as one who went from Reserves to Active Duty as a SPC....your rank will get recalculated, giving you a different Date of Rank. One of the main reasons for this is so you don't get hit with RCP. As for your chances of making SGT before 10 years...that's gonna depend on your promotion points and where you land on the OML. As for how they'd treat you....well, that is going to depend on the people in the unit. When I went Active...some gave me some friendly ribbing but for the most part, no one really cared. Also, I would like to point out that when I went Active, I had but 3 ribbons on my chest. I, too, had no deployments nor schooling.
While these areas can be of concern...they are easily overcome.
While these areas can be of concern...they are easily overcome.
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SPC (Join to see)
Does having date of rank recalculated also change pay and date of entry? If I were to say, want to do 20 years if I went AD, would I have to go basically 19 more years rather than 14 more years once my date of rank was recalculated?
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MSG (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) your pay does not change. You'd still be getting paid for the number of years you've completed. Your BASD (or BESD...can't recall currently) also gets recalculated. Which means if you want to retire with 20 years Active, you'd need to do 20 years Active. Your Guard time of service doesn't carry over for retirement time.
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If you were to go Active Duty, you would get a new MOS, yours is currently balanced.
There are currently 105 MOSes available today for a prior service enlistment, that changes constantly, and you could end up with an MOS you never heard of, and a duty location you never considered.
If promoting is your only concern, you could just remain in the Guard and reclass now, the obvious options are anything that has a BN or more of that MOS in your state: EN, FA, IN, MI, MP, TC, etc. The difference is, you get to choose the MOS, and you don't have to move, leave your civ job, drop out of school, etc.
Most transition courses (other than MI and MED) are 4 weeks.
If you mentioned the state you are in, I might be able to tell you what your best options are.
There are currently 105 MOSes available today for a prior service enlistment, that changes constantly, and you could end up with an MOS you never heard of, and a duty location you never considered.
If promoting is your only concern, you could just remain in the Guard and reclass now, the obvious options are anything that has a BN or more of that MOS in your state: EN, FA, IN, MI, MP, TC, etc. The difference is, you get to choose the MOS, and you don't have to move, leave your civ job, drop out of school, etc.
Most transition courses (other than MI and MED) are 4 weeks.
If you mentioned the state you are in, I might be able to tell you what your best options are.
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SPC (Join to see)
There is no guarantee to reclass and be promoted in the guard. I've seen it happen multiple times where someone relcassed in an attempt to make E5, only for them not to get a school slot quick enough and they ended up being stuck at E4 again.
I would like to be promoted before my hair gets any grayer. I don't have much to be proud of in life, and making E5 would mean a lot to me, but I fear if I reclass, I would not have enough time to become proficient at my MOS to even be considered for promotion and then kicked out for being an E4 for too long. By the time I switch over to active duty, graduate AIT and such, I would have less than 3 years to get promoted. And being older, I'm really not going to be able to keep up with those high speed 20 year olds who already have a leg up on me in the MOS.
It is very much looking like the end of my Army career. I should have been a done better when I was younger.
I would like to be promoted before my hair gets any grayer. I don't have much to be proud of in life, and making E5 would mean a lot to me, but I fear if I reclass, I would not have enough time to become proficient at my MOS to even be considered for promotion and then kicked out for being an E4 for too long. By the time I switch over to active duty, graduate AIT and such, I would have less than 3 years to get promoted. And being older, I'm really not going to be able to keep up with those high speed 20 year olds who already have a leg up on me in the MOS.
It is very much looking like the end of my Army career. I should have been a done better when I was younger.
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SGM Jeff Mccloud
And I have seen MDAYs reclass and promote in 18 months from start to finish.
The process works when the Soldier has the motivation, badgers the unit RNCO, and the MOS you are looking at has open seats open 6-9 months out.
The key is going to an MOS that still has E5 vacancies now, (after a whole year of expending the promotion list).
My state still has over 30 E5 vacancies in MI after the lists were expended.
And promoting to E5 in your first year in a new MOS in the Guard is pretty simple.
E4s are all assessed based on their SPC eval forms, BLC 1059 if they are complete, fitness, education, experience, the whole Soldier concept, experience in MOS is one factor in the whole picture.
And you make up the difference is admin points for schools, (resident and online) civ ed, awards, ACFT or last APFT score, IWQ, the only thing you can't max out on your own is awards. You can max out mil and civ ed online at no cost.
And then soft points for time in grade and service (to rank out those with the exact same board scores).
Bigger picture; 32 is not old in Guard years. We have people enlisting in their 30s every year. We have people coming back in their 30's as E4 after a 10-15 year break in service. We have non-priors applying for OCS at the age limit and prior service applying with age waivers every year.
Hell, my Psych 101 professor my freshman year didn't even enroll in college until she was 40. At 47 she started a 20 year teaching career.
Just forget about the past. It's about what you make of it today and every day after that, whether we're talking about the Guard, your civ career, education or family.
The process works when the Soldier has the motivation, badgers the unit RNCO, and the MOS you are looking at has open seats open 6-9 months out.
The key is going to an MOS that still has E5 vacancies now, (after a whole year of expending the promotion list).
My state still has over 30 E5 vacancies in MI after the lists were expended.
And promoting to E5 in your first year in a new MOS in the Guard is pretty simple.
E4s are all assessed based on their SPC eval forms, BLC 1059 if they are complete, fitness, education, experience, the whole Soldier concept, experience in MOS is one factor in the whole picture.
And you make up the difference is admin points for schools, (resident and online) civ ed, awards, ACFT or last APFT score, IWQ, the only thing you can't max out on your own is awards. You can max out mil and civ ed online at no cost.
And then soft points for time in grade and service (to rank out those with the exact same board scores).
Bigger picture; 32 is not old in Guard years. We have people enlisting in their 30s every year. We have people coming back in their 30's as E4 after a 10-15 year break in service. We have non-priors applying for OCS at the age limit and prior service applying with age waivers every year.
Hell, my Psych 101 professor my freshman year didn't even enroll in college until she was 40. At 47 she started a 20 year teaching career.
Just forget about the past. It's about what you make of it today and every day after that, whether we're talking about the Guard, your civ career, education or family.
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SPC (Join to see)
SGM Jeff Mccloud - 32 feels old when 21 year old SGTs tell you to clean the latrine and I'm starting to see E7s my age walking around. I often feel like my military career has been a failure when comparing myself to my peers. But thank you the reply SGM, it has eased some of my anxiety.
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SGM Jeff Mccloud
SPC (Join to see) - I felt the same way as a 24 yr old SPC at 3rd Bat when a 20 yr old tabbed SGT was telling me to buff the hallway, and my SFC PLT SGT was only a year older than me (he enlisted at 18 and made 7 in 7).
I got a little more perspective when I got to 5th Group as a 27 yr old SGT looking for the team I was assigned to and found the SFCs mopping and buffing the hallway, and the MSG and CPT cleaning the latrine.
Got a LOT more perspective after making SFC in 8 years active duty, but then taking 10 years to go from SFC to MSG because I switched to the Guard and went AGR.
Still getting perspective this year when a SPC older than me (and I'm over 50) asks if I needed the trash in my office emptied, and every time I mentor SGT or SSG over 40. They are all MDAYs that found an MOS they really love, and they just keep grinding away every month.
I got a little more perspective when I got to 5th Group as a 27 yr old SGT looking for the team I was assigned to and found the SFCs mopping and buffing the hallway, and the MSG and CPT cleaning the latrine.
Got a LOT more perspective after making SFC in 8 years active duty, but then taking 10 years to go from SFC to MSG because I switched to the Guard and went AGR.
Still getting perspective this year when a SPC older than me (and I'm over 50) asks if I needed the trash in my office emptied, and every time I mentor SGT or SSG over 40. They are all MDAYs that found an MOS they really love, and they just keep grinding away every month.
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The Guard unit in my wife's hometown had a good handle on the problem of getting NCOs promoted. 7, 8 and 9 were temp ranks for 2 or 3 years, however long it took to lock in retirement. At the end of the required time, they went back to 6 and another 6 took their rank and place. That way, the NCOs could retire at the highest grade held.
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I Was A Sgt In The Guard , When My Technician Job Was Cut, I Decided To Go Active They Dropped Me Back To Spc Because I Had About A Year As A Sgt , I Made The Sgt List In Less Than A Year Then I Was Severely Injured In A LOD Accident And Was Given A Medical Discharge.
I Was Not Treated Like Some Boot Just Out Of AIT , However Each Duty Station Has Different Ways Of Doing Things So Don’t Act Like You Know Everything.
Tell Your Recruiter You Want To Keep Your Date Of Rank , They Are Hurting For Bodes Right Now So They Probably Do That.
They Back Dated My Date To When I Made Spc Which Gave Me Time In Service And Time In Grade For Promotion The Only Thing You Will Have To Do Is Make Points , Get Recommended And Pass The Board .
Good Luck In Your Future Career.
I Was Not Treated Like Some Boot Just Out Of AIT , However Each Duty Station Has Different Ways Of Doing Things So Don’t Act Like You Know Everything.
Tell Your Recruiter You Want To Keep Your Date Of Rank , They Are Hurting For Bodes Right Now So They Probably Do That.
They Back Dated My Date To When I Made Spc Which Gave Me Time In Service And Time In Grade For Promotion The Only Thing You Will Have To Do Is Make Points , Get Recommended And Pass The Board .
Good Luck In Your Future Career.
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As long as the cutoff scores of your MOS are not so high, promotion will be entirely up to you. Make sure you are integrated for active duty promotion when you switch over. Max out your correspondence if you haven’t already. When you get to your unit, do very well on your ACFT and weapons qual. Turn your JST transcript into civilian education (thus boosting your points) by evaluating them with a college. Volunteer for courses that give you points (S1 has a list for that). You do all that, you can get promoted in less than a year after joining.
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For the deployment side of your concern, don't sweat that too much. Most junior-enlisted Soldiers have not deployed. It shouldn't stop you from making E5. The culture in our ranks is changing as the war came to an end. I have a deployment patch from time on the Enlisted side, and it makes me stick out now as a junior Officer. I am no longer the norm.
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