Posted on Nov 1, 2014
Lobbyist groups are advocating lowering standards for female infantry
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http://www.gruntreport.com/u-s-marine-corps-might-lower-combat-standards-for-women/
Again, the government hasnt done this, but now groups are lobbying for lowering standards for equality purposes.
Thoughts? (I am against it)
Again, the government hasnt done this, but now groups are lobbying for lowering standards for equality purposes.
Thoughts? (I am against it)
Posted in these groups: Infantry Center (Army)
Women in the Military
Women in the Military
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 59
I don't think they will. But this was inevitable. This is what happens when you inject societal norms into the military. They will change policy to address this. I don't think they will directly change it but they will revise or update the standards to enable women to pass. Over time standards change. I think it will be a back door to getting them in to pass.
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SGT Suraj Dave
It shouldn't even have to get that far. If they do end up going this, I think they should segregate male/female companies. You are shafting the males by trying to "integrate" them. Sending a 200 lb male into combat with females that only have the upper body strength to do 18 push up's is pretty much dooming him to death if he gets hurt... and dont be surprised when you see all the males end up carrying the Thor's, Crew Serves, and Walk Kit's....
When I was a Squad Leader/ Senior Medic of 1st BCT's QRF, all of us NCO's would look at the Patrol Manifests, and we would automatically have to make asterisks next to the names of Officers (no offense sir) and Females, because they are just bodies on our patrol who are not going to really contribute (i.e. they are not going to carry a Crew Serve, Thor, Walk Kit, etc...) though there are exceptions (Our XO carried a crew serve for us once, and we did have a female successfully carry the Thor during a dismounted patrol before.)
When I was a Squad Leader/ Senior Medic of 1st BCT's QRF, all of us NCO's would look at the Patrol Manifests, and we would automatically have to make asterisks next to the names of Officers (no offense sir) and Females, because they are just bodies on our patrol who are not going to really contribute (i.e. they are not going to carry a Crew Serve, Thor, Walk Kit, etc...) though there are exceptions (Our XO carried a crew serve for us once, and we did have a female successfully carry the Thor during a dismounted patrol before.)
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SSG Tim Everett
As much as I've agreed with, and identified with, much of what you've said across RP, on this I'm going to have to disagree with you, CPT (Join to see). We've had females in combat roles for much of the GWOT. We've lost females in combat zones. We have a number of roles that, whilst not straight-up infantry, put them in trigger-puller positions. When one dies, I don't see much of the media except maybe "news blogs" like Jezebel make a big fuss about it -- they treat her like she's a fallen soldier. And that's the way it should be, in my opinion.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSG Tim Everett You are right about women fighting in combat roles but none as infantry. I hope I am wrong but when you see a suffering from the same ill issues that the male infantrymen have they will not be so kind.
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SGT Suraj Dave
They should add something in there where they have to do a 12 mile with 1,000 rounds and a SAW. Its really "Unfair" that all the males have to carry the Crew Serves, the Thor's, etc...
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My thought is, it's amazing how blogging is nothing like actually reporting news, where standards and ethics require you to verify your facts.
The "lobbyist groups" is one person, who wrote an article that suggested the Marine Infantry Officer Leader Course go back to the old school standard have having the Combat Evaluation Test later in the course, and not on the first day. Her reasoning was that other schools allow you to recycle.
Her arguments are well thought out, but they clearly come from someone unfamiliar with ground combat, as she spent most of her career in Fort Belvoir or teaching at the War College.
http://warontherocks.com/2014/05/can-women-be-infantry-marines/
The "lobbyist groups" is one person, who wrote an article that suggested the Marine Infantry Officer Leader Course go back to the old school standard have having the Combat Evaluation Test later in the course, and not on the first day. Her reasoning was that other schools allow you to recycle.
Her arguments are well thought out, but they clearly come from someone unfamiliar with ground combat, as she spent most of her career in Fort Belvoir or teaching at the War College.
http://warontherocks.com/2014/05/can-women-be-infantry-marines/
Can Women be Infantry Marines? - War on the Rocks
When the Secretary of Defense rescinded the ground combat exclusion policy he gave the Services three years to fully integrate women into all combat specia
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I wonder what's going to be next....a female version of a tank with lighter rounds and a smaller track? Or lighter artillery rounds for the females/males that cannot carry the heavier ones?
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They should shut their mouths. Some things are supposed to be hard and if anyone male or female can't make the standard then tough shit.
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Surprised it took this long for someone to advocate for a lowering of standards to make for more equality amongst the sexes......
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SGT Suraj Dave
A couple month's ago I said this exact same thing, that its only a matter of time until someone suggest's we lower the standards to make it equal... and I got down voted and insulted by a bunch of people.... Its kind of funny actually.
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SFC William Swartz Jr
SGT Suraj Dave sometimes down-voters just can't handle someone voicing their opinions because they conflict with those of the down-voter.....
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SGT Suraj Dave
Although I am still not in favor of females in combat branches (I'm too "old school", I guess), if the decision is to allow it, then there needs to be a standard set (the same for everyone, not a different male/female standard). Anybody meeting that standard should be allowed to serve in that branch/MOS.
If you want true equality, make all the rules the same, regardless of sex. For example, if the desire is to treat males and females the same, make females register fore the draft, just like males. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
When this whole "females in combat" issue came up, everyone was assured that there would be no degradation of the standards for females. Right... The lobbyists and social engineers will eventually have their way with this one, just like they have with all the rest of the changes they have foisted on the military.
Bottom line is that it adversely impacts the effectiveness of our military, all in the name of "social justice".
Although I am still not in favor of females in combat branches (I'm too "old school", I guess), if the decision is to allow it, then there needs to be a standard set (the same for everyone, not a different male/female standard). Anybody meeting that standard should be allowed to serve in that branch/MOS.
If you want true equality, make all the rules the same, regardless of sex. For example, if the desire is to treat males and females the same, make females register fore the draft, just like males. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
When this whole "females in combat" issue came up, everyone was assured that there would be no degradation of the standards for females. Right... The lobbyists and social engineers will eventually have their way with this one, just like they have with all the rest of the changes they have foisted on the military.
Bottom line is that it adversely impacts the effectiveness of our military, all in the name of "social justice".
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SGT Suraj Dave
I 100% agree, Its already a bad idea, and another classic example of of trying to fix something that was never broken.
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No way, it is absolutely a TERRIBLE DANGEROUS idea to change standards, I would rally everyone female Soldier I know and we would protest this.
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Poorly sourced article with a clear agenda. Notice that the Marines themselves don't want to lower the standards nor have they said they want to. These unnamed interest groups don't matter. At the end of the day, the decision to let women into the infantry or deny them the same, both Marines and Army, will will be based on what happens during the rigorous training.
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As much as I think women should be able to do infantry and special warfare programs like seal and special forces. We can have anyone dragging ass. I say let them join. They just have to meet the "male" requirements. They shouldn't get special treat ment on physical fitness standards if they are going to be guarding my back. If so more people are going to be coming off their flight home being cared by 4 to 6 military personnel. And we can't have that happen.
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If they can meet the current standards fine. Lowering the standards never works out for the better.
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