Posted on Sep 11, 2015
Mixed-gender teams come up short in Marines' infantry experiment. What do you think?
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All-male ground combat teams outperformed their mixed-gender counterparts in nearly every capacity during a recent infantry integration test, Marine Corps officials revealed Thursday.
Data collected during a monthslong experiment showed Marine teams with female members performed at lower overall levels, completed tasks more slowly and fired weapons with less accuracy than their all-male counterparts. In addition, female Marines sustained significantly higher injury rates and demonstrated lower levels of physical performance capacity overall, officials said.
The troubling findings come as Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Joseph Dunford prepares to make a crucial decision regarding the integration of female troops into closed combat roles. Faced with a Defense Department-wide mandate that will open all jobs to women by Jan. 1, he must decide whether to ask for specific exceptions to the mandate in order to preserve combat readiness. Officials said Dunford had met with Navy Secretary Ray Mabus about the decision but had yet to issue his recommendations.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/
Long story but an interesting read. My take is two-fold. One, women simply don't have the experience that men do. That will (most likely) improve over time as women gain experience.
Two, women for the most part simply do not have the muscular strength and endurance that men do. That's basic physiology.
Data collected during a monthslong experiment showed Marine teams with female members performed at lower overall levels, completed tasks more slowly and fired weapons with less accuracy than their all-male counterparts. In addition, female Marines sustained significantly higher injury rates and demonstrated lower levels of physical performance capacity overall, officials said.
The troubling findings come as Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Joseph Dunford prepares to make a crucial decision regarding the integration of female troops into closed combat roles. Faced with a Defense Department-wide mandate that will open all jobs to women by Jan. 1, he must decide whether to ask for specific exceptions to the mandate in order to preserve combat readiness. Officials said Dunford had met with Navy Secretary Ray Mabus about the decision but had yet to issue his recommendations.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/
Long story but an interesting read. My take is two-fold. One, women simply don't have the experience that men do. That will (most likely) improve over time as women gain experience.
Two, women for the most part simply do not have the muscular strength and endurance that men do. That's basic physiology.
Women in the Military
Marine Corps
Infantry
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 78
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Follow the example of the Rangers - do not modify requirements and see what happens.
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Wasted Money. Our Country has over 239 Years of Experience and Results, that say Men in Infantry get results, and Win Wars. Jessica Lynch is the Perfect Reason NOT To have Women in Infantry, or Any Combat MOS.
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As I said before women are not build to be men, that's biblical Eve were made from Adam's rib, for the sake of a help me mate. There will be exception's to the rule where a few women will qualify. But, General don't force the whole population of Women Marine's to try and endure Men standards. This whole climate of being political correct for equal opportunity is wrong. If this were not so God would have created all women for combat roles, and created man for a helper's role. Think for a minute, women have the most important role on this earth to procreate new Marines. Men cannot get pregnant and have new Marines. We are the only species on this earth, that do not accept who we are, and what purpose God made us for. Women are nurturers, men can never be equal to women, just by there make up of DNA.
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can we just ask what other country do with this topic? instead of wasting money? Just ask our allies, we can learn a lot of from them than this study!
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So this is the type of study that needed to be done. It is low cost (as in we reap training value as well as study females in infantry), low risk, produces results and leaves politics out of the picture. If necessary, repeat every five years to check if we are still on target.
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They need to release the entire 900+ page report, so that it can be peer-reviewed for methodology and conclusions.
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Capt (Join to see)
Sir,
Who needs a report? Any officer who has ever been to The Basic School knows exactly what happens to the females when you step off on any hike/tactical movement etc...they go to the back and get in the safety vehicle. Never saw one humping the 240 or SAW.
Leave it to the military to spend millions to figure out something that everyone knows.
Who needs a report? Any officer who has ever been to The Basic School knows exactly what happens to the females when you step off on any hike/tactical movement etc...they go to the back and get in the safety vehicle. Never saw one humping the 240 or SAW.
Leave it to the military to spend millions to figure out something that everyone knows.
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This is interesting.... do you think the USMC set this up so it would fail?
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Unlikely. It's all data. Keep in mind that under true combat conditions, we are theoretically getting a mass influx of "raw" people very quickly as well. Those will be in the 18-22 range, directly out of ITB. The average of the USMC is actually only 24. We are the "youngest" Service (by median, and average ages).
Additionally, we have the lowest percentage of females total at about 7%. We really didn't know what was going to happen. All Marines go through some variation of Combat Training whether it is MCT, ITB, or TBS. We're VERY Combat focused, but this is new for us. We're evolving based on new requirements. So we do like we always do. We stress test it like we would a rifle, or an airplane... or a Marine. We push it til it breaks. We find the weaknesses in the system, and figure out how to overcome them if we can. Or we work around them.
But all we're seeing right now is the summary. Not the whole report. We don't have a whole picture. Yet. They may come back and say 0311 (rifleman) yes, 0331 (Machinegunner) no, LAV yes, etc.. We just don't know (I picked the above at random for my grunt brothers).
Additionally, we have the lowest percentage of females total at about 7%. We really didn't know what was going to happen. All Marines go through some variation of Combat Training whether it is MCT, ITB, or TBS. We're VERY Combat focused, but this is new for us. We're evolving based on new requirements. So we do like we always do. We stress test it like we would a rifle, or an airplane... or a Marine. We push it til it breaks. We find the weaknesses in the system, and figure out how to overcome them if we can. Or we work around them.
But all we're seeing right now is the summary. Not the whole report. We don't have a whole picture. Yet. They may come back and say 0311 (rifleman) yes, 0331 (Machinegunner) no, LAV yes, etc.. We just don't know (I picked the above at random for my grunt brothers).
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
MSG Steve Howell and look at the ranger data. We can cherry pick data points all we want. 144 out of 401 (36%) of the female ITB volunteers did pass that course. Each course has varying standards, for different reasons.
He asked if the Marines set them up for failure. I stand by my assertion that "no, we did not." As for what the USMC's final analysis will be, I am reserving judgement until the actual report comes out.
He asked if the Marines set them up for failure. I stand by my assertion that "no, we did not." As for what the USMC's final analysis will be, I am reserving judgement until the actual report comes out.
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