Posted on Apr 28, 2022
What you think of the past MRAP program from the Iraqi and Afghanistan early years?
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What you think of the past MRAP program from the Iraqi and Afghanistan early years?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 5
What do mean? Like why we went into a situation of non-linear warfare without a hardened supply chain and armored patrol vehicles? Or how come the lessons of Vietnam some 30 years earlier about the vulnerability of a road bound supply chain in areas of insurgency being forgotten? Or the length of time it took to react to the fact that IED's were becoming a primary weapon system for the insurgency?
What still amazes me that the South Africans are the only major military that developed a line of MRAP's to deal with the same kind of issues, just did it thirty years earlier. Almost all of the modern MRAP's are based around the South African Mamba, Cassipir and Ratel.
What still amazes me that the South Africans are the only major military that developed a line of MRAP's to deal with the same kind of issues, just did it thirty years earlier. Almost all of the modern MRAP's are based around the South African Mamba, Cassipir and Ratel.
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MSG (Join to see)
Now Sir...you and I both know logic does NOT work with the military. And if the General Officers would even bother to read what you said....they'd be very upset.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
MSG (Join to see) - It's always been the case that we train to fight the last war, whether it's logical or not. And we seem to forget some important but mundane things that turn out to be very important.
I don't have to worry about upsetting Generals anymore. I follow Matt Taibbi, formerly of the Rolling Stone. I'm sure that if the Generals, or more to the point, former Generals, read his article about why these guys doing "Military" analysis all happen to work for the Defense Industry, but that is never part of their introduction, and my comments on that subject, they would be upset with me also.
I don't have to worry about upsetting Generals anymore. I follow Matt Taibbi, formerly of the Rolling Stone. I'm sure that if the Generals, or more to the point, former Generals, read his article about why these guys doing "Military" analysis all happen to work for the Defense Industry, but that is never part of their introduction, and my comments on that subject, they would be upset with me also.
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MSG (Join to see)
CPT Lawrence Cable - Well...where else would a retired General work? Certainly not gonna get a job as a greeter at walmart. The perks of the Stars
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CPT Lawrence Cable
MSG (Join to see) - I don't mind the job, I just think if you are going to be a warmonger, you need to show your sponsors.
I'm getting cynical in my old age.
I'm getting cynical in my old age.
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It was an attempt to deal with what we were seeing in both theaters. You mention it was the early years of Iraq/Afghanistan but it wasn't. MRAPs were ordered in 2007. That's years of combat deployments without the MRAP. I was in Afghanistan in 04 and the best we could hope for at that time was an up armored humvee. To try to help The Marine Corps started fielding under-armor kits for un-armored humvees to help combat IED's. It was basically a set of armored plates under the main body of the humvee. The vehicle might not have doors or only have the canvas doors but you might survive an IED if it wasn't a big one.
From that perspective the MRAP was a major achievement. It wasn't perfect but it was certainly better than what we had in 04.
From that perspective the MRAP was a major achievement. It wasn't perfect but it was certainly better than what we had in 04.
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Damn vague questions, IED's were killing to many people, impromptu fixes weren't working, so DARPA, etc. came up with the MRAP, It worked but, it was not designed to be bomb-proof against anything they could do. Big damn difference between 81/82mm mortar shell and say, 105/155 arty shell.
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That’s the fastest Army fielding ever. Institutional and Tactical Army struggled to catch the sustainment piece between training and parts
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The DOD and it’s subordinate commands analyze the global threat, play tgat against the budget and outfits the Services with the most viable equipment available as threats evolve the testing labs partner with company's to develop equipment to meet the emerging threats.
Sometimes there are a number of years where the busget falls behind and DOD has to put on a smiley face and defend our interests with existing equipment.
It would certainly be nice if we had the intelligence, and ours is great, to asses the threat in real-time expecting contractors to keep up pace with innovations meeting those threats.
What a world it would be.
Sometimes there are a number of years where the busget falls behind and DOD has to put on a smiley face and defend our interests with existing equipment.
It would certainly be nice if we had the intelligence, and ours is great, to asses the threat in real-time expecting contractors to keep up pace with innovations meeting those threats.
What a world it would be.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
My point above is that the intelligence and equipment need was out there and had been for a long time. We saw it in Vietnam, answered with some improvised gun trucks, which were better than nothing. How many people were killed or injured there by boobytraps (IED's). A look at the conflicts in Southern Africa or Israel's experiences in Lebanon all confirmed what should have been clear for the US since Vietnam, unarmored patrol vehicles/logistical chain in a close environment are just rolling targets. It still amazes me that the South Africans are the only country that I can find that developed a complete line of Mine and Ambush protected vehicles.
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