Posted on Jun 6, 2014
CPT Assistant Operations Officer (S3)
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I am finding a lot of contention with the saluting post. I will now put on the level of enlisted soldiers now.

If you are in a company that has a MSG in it, like an HHC, would the MSG stand at parade rest for the 1SG. The 1SG is the senior most soldier in the company. Would this be the case for a OPS SGM and the BN CSM.

I know they are all the same pay grade but the duty position makes one the Senior and one the subordinate. If you think this is still not clear. Would a BN CSM stand at Parade Rest for a BDE CSM.

Would a SPC and a CPL be the same as they are in the same pay grade?

As with LTs they see themselves as peers but one is still senior to the other.

FM 7-21.13 para 4-16
• When speaking to or being addressed a noncommissioned officer of superior rank, stand at parade rest until ordered otherwise.
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Edited 10 y ago
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Responses: 49
GySgt Kenneth Pepper
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My opinion....the only time and place for a SNCO to stand at parade rest while speaking to another, higher ranking SNCO would be in a formation, duty changeover or other formal situation. If we are having a conversation or information is being exchanged, we are both professionals and the formality of standing at parade rest is unnecessary. It could actually hinder 2-way communication.
I'm sure some will disagree, but especially after I pinned on my second rocker, I only stood at parade rest or attention for my CO or in a formal setting.
I did once witness an epic MGYSGT vs. SGTMAJ argument that ended with the MPs being called. That was fun.
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MAJ Integration Officer
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LoL
No
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SFC Mpd Ncoic
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While assigned to Fort Meade, we were attached to a unit that didn't have a 1SG position, but a detachment SGT position. We all were E7s, but you best believe that we were at parade rest when addressing him. He would normally tell us to relax, but we just didn't take it upon ourselves to now properly address him.
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MSG Dan Castaneda
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I call my 1SG by his first name. We are peers with different duties.
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SSG Don Maggart
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It is the Position not the Personality @ Sir
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LTC Hardware Test Engineer
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due to a shortage of CPTs in my first unit, I was assigned as a Company CO as a 1LT. My XO was also a 1LT and I only had a couple of weeks TIG on him. Even though I was "the old man", I never even thought about insisting on him calling me "sir", saluting or any of that other protocol jazz. We were both 1LTs and I just happened to draw the short straw and get assigned to be CDR.
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SFC General Engineering Supervisor
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The MSG/1SG and SGM/CSM is invalid really but they usually call each other by their first names anyhow, unless in a large setting. Lol.

The BN CSM should stand at parade rest for the BDE CSM as a sign of respect. You don't have to respect the person, but you had better respect their rank/position.

The CPL is an NCO and a SPC is not so that is also invalid even though the are the same rank.

A Butter Bar had better salute EVERYONE ABOVE HIM....HE BETTER SALUTE A CW4 OR CW5 if he gets too confused. Lol.

Here's one for the books....What do you think about a LTC answering to CPT and a SGM answering to a 1SG??? I saw this happen in FT POLK being assigned to the HHC USAG FLT DET and seeing the DET CDR (LTC) and DET NCOIC (SGM) answer to the HHC USAG CDR (CPT) and HHC USAG 1SG.
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CW2(P) Uh 60 M Pilot In Command
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So here is another question..

My BN has a SFC in the position of OPS SGM. Of course our BN's 1SG's outrank said SFC but does he (by virtue of position) outrank them?(is "out-positioning" a thing...?) Afterall, an OPS SGM is responsible for ensuring the proper completion of taskings (and operations in general) as directed by the BC/BN CSM which has him directing/guiding 1SG's...so do the 1SG's stand at parade rest for the OPS SGM (SFC)?

DISCLAIMER: I obviously understand the rank structure and that no 1SG in their right mind is standing at parade rest for a SFC... I am simply posing this question to better understand others (more senior) points of view on a situation such as this. I feel this is relevant seeing as though there are others talking about MSGs standing at parade rest for 1SGs in an HHC, etc. Luckily the SFC and 1SG's are professional enough to make this topsy-turvy scenario work.
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CPT Ahmed Faried
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no same pay grade.
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CPT Assistant Operations Officer (S3)
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But isn't one senior to the other.
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SGM Senior Adviser, National Communications
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1LT Rosa--you always stretch our imaginations...consider the UCMJ concept of "actual rank" and the different types of authority (Command vs General Military) and difference in Rank and Grade. Actual rank is the highest rank you "actually" hold or once held, which may be paid or unpaid, and may affect one's authority and status. One's "actual" general military authority derives from that rank, and the effects of that authority are affected by the component (in on active duty...'now serving as xxxx') and in any case may be amplified or increased by an "Acting" rank capacity, and/or Frock or temporary promotion (rarely done these days other than Frock) which may also involve a Position.
Thus a POSITION or Acting or Temporary Rank may involve both GM Authority and COMMAND authority. We too often forget that every soldier has a level of General Military Authority over every soldier they "outrank" by "Actual" rank, and or time in grade or time in service--yes, it can be that picky.
Therefore, an acting SGT in basic training effectively has the COMMAND authority of a SGT for training purposes and under certain other conditions determined by policy. Of course, they are backed up by DIs, NCOs, 1SG and Company Commander as they are usually carrying out a specific order from them.
A CSM or a 1SG, by Position and "actual rank", could lawfully do as you propose.
Another example is a Captain who is a company commander has command authority--and might have officers who outrank him/her in a company formation. Tradition and policy usually exempts equiv or higher grades and ranks from formations, but not in all instances, such as deployments, etc.
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