"Muslims Demand Army Change Its Dress Code To Include Turbans And Beards"

Quotes out of context usually bring out a snide remark from me.

I've never been one to think that I needed huge numbers on my side in order for my opinions or beliefs to be correct. More the opposite for me. If I'm running with the crowd, I tend to stop and reflect. The crowd is more often than not....WRONG!

You may find comfort in your opinion that "many would agree with this statement." I find it to be a weakness to seek the crowd. I'd rather be my own person.

You may "assume" what you will Mr. Kaelin, but surely YOU would also know what that spells, right? Based on several of your comments, you seem to believe you are much wiser than many other people. You can "be your own person" humbly without being condescending to others. Think on that one. sir.

The rules change to adapt to changes in our society. Deal with it. If the rules didn't change, a couple of my female friends wouldn't be getting a shot at Ranger School. And, to take it back a couple more decades Camille, if rules then hadn't changed you wouldn't have had the opportunity to serve and lead Sailors as a Petty Officer.

Also, the story that this thread is based upon, is at best, pretty much bull plop with just a few kernels of truth embedded within it.

"Although the latest article about updates to military dress code policies sparked significant social media interest, at least two requests for religious accommodation were denied by the Army in 2014. Not only were military dress code regulations not recently updated, but accommodations applied for under older standards allowed were not always granted, and the changes were not made solely to accommodate Muslim servicemen. "

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/armyturban.asp#pFzcFJFMsulr3cwM.99

You may all continue blathering now. (How is that for snide?)

It is snide, CPT Jonathan Slack. You may consider what I or others who do not particularly agree with you "blathering"; perhaps others think that same way about what you just commented. By the time you posted your SNOPES link, everyone has seen it 100+ times posted here by a female by the name of SGM Robin Johnson. We already know "the story that this thread is based upon, is at best, pretty much bull plop". Regardless, people on the post wish to opine with their thoughts on what they think is right or wrong about the IDEA of it. I have already commented with my views, and I will leave it at that.

Looks like it's us Ol' Timers that are going to have to set the record straight. The youngun's aren't as learned as we are.

AR 670-1 wasn't changed . . . they were granted an exception, as allowed in AR 670-1.

Look up Sikh and educate yourself on them, as you may wish you had them serving with you on the line.

Listen to CPT Harder. You are replying to a post that is so misleading as to be false. No religious group 'demanded' anything. No regulations were changed. The DOD published a clarification of expectations about religious accommodations in January 2014. The Army already met those standard. The Soldiers pictured are not Muslim, they are Sikh and have been serving for several years without any issues, including wearing protective gear. The fact that you didn't know the regulations, policies, and procedures regarding uniforms and religious accommodations well enough to notice this, even though they have been basically unchanged for years, is troubling. Even the most junior Soldier could have checked this out on Snopes. http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/armyturban.asp

ah, you go SgtMaj

I want to give you 1,000 thumbs up SGM Robin Johnson

This is the United States Army, NOT the United Nations Military. So for all those parties interested in changing our rights and traditions, I invite them to join Armed forces of those countries which allow such dress codes.

We change our uniforms all of the time, as well as the uniform regulations. In Fact AR 670-1 came out 31 MAR 14 and a RAR came up in SEP of this year that changed some parts of it. We just came out with a new PT uniform that went into the MCSS at the beginning of this fiscal year, and we will be changing our ACU from the OCP to the Multi-Cam. So it doesn't seem as though we really have a dress code there does it? The military is a direct representation of the United States of America, to include all of the diversity that goes along with it. We can not tell a group of people that they are not allowed to do something because we want them to conform. The military has always conformed to the people, not the other way around. That's why they allowed minorities, and women, and repealed DADT, and are trying to integrate women in Combat Arms, and SOF. Also, as if this needs to be said, but there is no official religion within the United States of America.

CPT Steven Harder I stand corrected, however, it is still wrong that the military will make exceptions or modifications in regulations for one belief while trying to silence or suppress another religion.

It isn't for "one belief" . . . it is on a case-by-case basis. Translation, some Sikh's that request the exception may not have it granted.

However, with the Army priding itself on the best professional soldiers they can get . . . and Sikh's being Warrior caste, if the Sikh is SF, Ranger, Delta, etc., it would be pretty hard to deny the exception. In the case of the good CPT, the Army is always in need of good doctors and he was already credentialed.

Sorta has both, a uniform regulation to tell you how to wear each type of uniform and a dress code to tell you when to wear what uniform.

Thank you. But given the special treatment Muslims are getting elsewhere, including other countries, can you see why we're so quick to believe it? I do most of my RP on mobile. It's really difficult to to do any kind of research on this little thing. I kinda assume it was done before it was posted. The issue I had with the down vote is it's usually reserved for really unprofessional or hostile personal attacks. If we start down voting every opinion we don't rightly agree with, there will be a lot of them.

what special treatment. unless you mean getting double checked at airports (this has happen to me), being put on the no fly list (happen to me from 2001 to 2009), except when it came to deploying funny i fell off the list then. LOL!!! when the US did the XXXX at the bottom of your ticket you had to get check one last time before you got on the plane. it was random. yet that happen to me everytime from 2001 to 2003. they ended the program then.

to being spit on in public, and called names (happen to me). having my security clearance reinvestigated because i was a muslim (happen to me).

being spied on in mosques just because muslim where there no proof or even a tip of wrong doing (NYC police admitted to this).

having mosques damaged (on the rise in the US).

been told one day i couldn't eat at a food joint in MD. the next day i came back in Uniform they served me. should the lady the pic of me the day before. that places is no longer open.


so when you say special treatment I don't know what you mean. I work on my holy days (Friday). Must most Christians and Jews get almost Satuday, and Sunday off. out of the 18 pages of religious stuff the military can order. 15 are for chrisitans, 1 Jews, 1 Muslims, and the rest are every other religion combined. who get Easter off, has religious serves on every post and doesn't have to travel off post for the most part. It ain't muslims.

now we do get out of PT sometimes for Ramadan.

oh and we have our loyalty questions weekly by fellow soldiers.

is that the special treatment you are talking about.

happy Veterans day

SGT Abdul-Aziz

Sorry but being checked at airports isn't a Muslim thing. I've been checked several times, one in my military dress uniform!

You want special treatment, how about Islam being taught in schools where they can't teach Christianity. How about them demanding restaraunts stop serving pork. Seriously, go elsewhere if it offends your thin skinned ass. How about getting a mosque built at the site of the greatest Islamic terrorist attack this country ever knew. How about the Muslim bombers of the the Boston Marathon not being treated as the terrorists they were. The one they caught should have been sent to Gitmo. How about a certain Midwest town where they have a majority and now enforce their own laws, illegally. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for a religion that breeds hate, stones women to death, calls a woman who was raped a criminal while the Muslim rapist walks free. It's a religion that has no place in the modern world.

Tell it like it is, Sgt. Flickinger right is right, wrong is wrong Amen!

RELIGIOUS accommodation is different than CULTURAL practice. Certainly when you were a LCDR you were required to learn the Naval Instructions regarding processing of religious accommodations if one of your Sailors requested one, Sir. There are religious accommodations which can be made for Native American or First Nation members who practice traditional religious beliefs which require accommodation. Just so you are aware, you were replying to a post that is so misleading as to be false. No religious group 'demanded' anything. No regulations were changed. The DOD published a clarification of expectations about religious accommodations in January 2014. The Army already met those standards (and I believe the Navy was substantially in compliance as well). The Soldiers pictured are not Muslim, they are Sikh and have been serving for several years without any issues, including wearing protective gear. Even though this was about the Army, the Naval Instructions were very similar, so the fact that you, as an officer who would have been responsible for answering his Sailor's questions, didn't know the basics of the regulations/instructions, policies, and procedures regarding uniforms and religious accommodations well enough to notice this, even though they have been basically unchanged for years, is troubling. You can check this out on Snopes. http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/armyturban.asp