Posted on Oct 21, 2014
CW2 Jonathan Kantor
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What do you think about this? I will post my opinion after we rack up a few from some other members.
Posted in these groups: 74e0f2f8 ClothingWorld religions 2 Religion
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Responses: 276
1SG Matthew Herring
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The reason why folks are starting to demand things is because the military has decided allow things. We've started waiving the standards in order to fit in with the civilian way of life. The problem with that is civilians are not going to leave home to go fight wars. When I joined the military was all about being their own culture. We were our own culture due to the unique way we conduct business for the nation. We have always been the group that everyone can join, but only a dedicated few can survive in. Now that we are conforming to the rest of America we are trying to be the group that everyone can join and everyone can thrive in. This affects our readiness due to the fact that not everyone is willing to be discipline and not everyone is willing to fight. We've allowed people to maintain their agendas for joining the military instead of focusing them towards the agenda of the military, which is to defend America and win our nation's wars.

Many folks are going to say "well we allowed this group to do that, so why not allow this other group to do what they want?" And in the new "conformist" military where standards take a backseat to personal preference they will have a totally valid argument and the only answer will be: Change the reg so that everyone is happy

Since we are going to allow folks to grow their hair and beards for religious reasons I'm going to push to allow Rastafarians to grow their locks and beards, and if others get their wish and I can't get mine, then I'm going to scream racism!!! See...this is what happens when the military starts accommodating folks when it comes to uniform standards. IJS

Pandora's box has been opened........
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SSG David Kaelin
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The title of your article is misleading at best.

It gives no indication or proof that Muslims have "demanded" anything. The only supporting evidence of any sort is a statement or two by Sikhs who are not Muslim.
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1SG Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
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I don't that anyone should join the military with hopes of changing anything already in place. If you don't like the way things are, then get out. Soldiers adapt to the Army, not the other way around. That is ridiculous if anyone even considers making these changes. I mean its already bad enough that we are told to worry that our yelling makes soldiers uncomfortable.
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SSG David Kaelin
SSG David Kaelin
11 y
Yeah, those Black guys should still be cooks and muleskinners and truck drivers. And women...kick them back out. Because the "Old Army" was way awesome!
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1SG Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
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11 y
Really, does it really have to be spoon fed to you? If you really don't understand what I am implying I can explain in greater detail for you. Many of the black soldiers from the past were forced to join against their wills. That was a different time for everyone and you and I were not involved in the "old Army" to which you speak. But to answer your attempt at sarcasm the "old Army" that I came up in was awesome. Soldiers had discipline and did what needed to be done to accomplish the mission. They joined because they wanted to do something far greater than they could accomplish on their own and for the bigger picture of the American people. The "new Army" is about how good we look and not how good we are. I have already wasted too much of my time responding to this remark.
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SSgt Security Forces
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I could be wrong but isn't separation of church and state a thing? I mean changing our rules, regulations and uniform for one specific religion seems to contradict it. I understand the belief system requires it but our military requires something as well, sacrifice of your individuality to a point.

Nothing we can honestly say or do to change this as these regulations are already passed.
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SSgt Security Forces
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11 y
So you are saying Christianity is the source of sexual assault in the military and not pieces of crap not being able to control themselves? I'm sorry but that has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read. Try personal accountability before attacking a religion.
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SSG David Kaelin
SSG David Kaelin
11 y
Reading is fundamental

No...I'm saying that idiot rules by idiot Generals influenced by puritanical Christian beliefs are a source of the friction which results in the sexual repression of the Military.

Sexual repression always finds an outlet.

In Afghanistan, they have sex with goats, donkeys, sheep and little boys.

In the US Military overseas, it results in sexual assault.

People are still responsible for their actions. Leaders are responsible for the environment which makes sexual assault more likely.

Becoming upset and jumping to erroneous conclusions is probably not going to do anything for you.
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SSG James Lopez
SSG James Lopez
11 y
My opinion on the Muslins wearing turbins and beards, why do we let this happen? People need to speak out, they want to do whatever they want this is B.S. They join our Army and they want to change it, this is B.S.
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SSG General Services Technician And State Vehicle Inspector
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11 y
WOW!!! Talk about intolerance and hatred towards Christians not to mention blatant lies.
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Cpl Supply Administration and Operations Specialist
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This is just getting out of hand.
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1SG Michael Blount
1SG Michael Blount
11 y
Cpl (Join to see) - absolutely right, Cpl. I'm all for cultural diversity and minority rights, but next thing you know, these people will be asking for kevelar turbans and to suspend combat operations during prayer times.
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SSG Ike Phelan
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Edited 11 y ago
This is insane NO the uniform standard should not change to meet the standard of any one person or group. They know the standard going in if you do not like it then do not sign up. The military is down sizing now so just down size them out where they can wear what ever they want. Trying to make everyone happy is going to destroy everything that we hold dear. I do not see catholic leadership in the military wearing their traditional clothing around base when they are not at mass nor have I ever heard of them asking to do so and these are college educated men of the cloth so why should we change to appease someone who simply says I am this or that with no formal training.
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SPC Elif Anderson
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I say the author is quite misleading with the choice of the title for the article for that the word demand isn't very peaceful approach nor is there a demand merely a petition to modify the dress code to accommodate a religious request. I can already see the extreme bias responses. Good luck keeping it peaceful and open minded!
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SSG (ret) William Martin
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The Department of Defense wants to apply special rights to a few select but restrict Chaplains. If the few select get special rights, release the restrictions on Chaplains.
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SFC Edward Chandler
SFC Edward Chandler
11 y
They are putting Chaplains in the cross hairs for teaching what they have always taught. Jesus Christ!!!!!! Also for not assenting to gay marriage.
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SFC Edward Chandler
SFC Edward Chandler
11 y
We don't have a Commander in Chief anymore and that is the problem with our military now! He is (Obama) no commander he is a joke! He puts our soldiers in harms way by announcing pull out dates for our troops. Way to go let the enemy know our intent Obama!
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SFC Squad Leader
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Honestly, I think it is a load of nonsense. Don't get me wrong, I support everyones right to worship as they please. On the same token, to allow an infinitesimal percentage of our great organization to bend standards to their liking (while my tattoos are condemned as "unprofessional") is a slap in the face to those of us who ruck up and drive on with the rules and regulations regardless of our complaints. This is the United States Army if you want to fight for your country in OUR ranks, do it as we do. We have countless victories because of the way we conduct warfare. Stop whining, quit trying to rock the boat, and fall in.
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LTC Instructor
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Edited 11 y ago
The comments on this thread are alarming. There are a few fundamentals people are either overlooking or deliberately disregarding.

1. The Army is "green," the Navy and Air Force are various shades of "blue," the Marine Corps must be "red," and the Coasties must either be "orange" or some other shade of "blue." We are not any race in particular. Neither are we any particular religion. I find SGT Richard H. to be off the mark because Islam and Sikhism are not "special interests," as if Christianity were somehow the norm. Christianity may be the majority, but not being a Christian is not abnormal. What people seem to be forgetting is that we are not a Christian military with "special interest" minority faiths. We are a fighting force composed of American citizens or those who hope to become citizens, and we come from a population that contains and values religious beliefs.

2. The idea that prohibiting people from observing their sincere religious tenets will somehow DECREASE racism is absurd. The "you joined the military, now conform!" line of thinking misses step 1 above. First, xenophobia is distinct from racism, so the connection is beyond me. Many SMs need to take a hard look at their own unquestioned notions on this topic and, in accordance with at least the Army's Values, reexamine their Loyalty, Integrity, and Selfless Service. Second, even the idea that prohibition of religious observance will decrease religious intolerance is illogical. We need to start with the knowledge that (a) there is a Christian majority and (b) that majority's religious observances have already been accommodated. Then, we can recognize that, from a minority religion's perspective, refusal to accommodate is xenophobia, or religiophobia or whatever. We cannot be a military that represents the population if we don't reflect our cultural differences. Obviously, reflecting those differences must be done selectively to safeguard military necessity.

3. To end on a positive note, it is great to know that there are several approaching this discussion with tolerance, level heads, and logic. SGM Robin Johnson, MSgt Randy Dines, and CPT Steven Harder, thanks for being the minority.
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LTC Operations Research/Systems Analysis
LTC (Join to see)
11 y
SGT Glenn, you do not like having a label put on you, but then you put one on another person, and then follow it up with derogatory comments that are despicable at best. AR 670-1 is not gospel and has changed numerous times over my career to accommodate a changing environment. Next, you claim to stand up for this country, but you sound like bigot of the worst ilk, is this what America stands for now? If you are what now constitutes the first line of defense for our moral code, I fear for the survival of the Republic.
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LTC Instructor
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SSG Robert Burns
SSG Robert Burns
11 y
LTC (Join to see) I think that leaving SGT Glenn's comments can be a "training moment" for all to see. I don't think anyone gives any credibility to his accusations or takes him seriously, and it is a good example of how not to conduct yourself in a professional military forum. Just like when people say I'm not a genius. I just laugh because I know I am, my mom told me so.
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LTC Instructor
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SSG Robert Burns, I'm all for the value of training moments, but I want his posts taken down. You would not train your Soldiers by permitting another bad Soldier to go uncorrected. Or, if a Soldier put a sign up with the same comments about any other Soldier on his door, you would not leave the comments there as an example to others.

I'm not pulling rank (I never do). I'm not engaging him in further distasteful argument. I am simply asking that his comments be removed as not being within professional ambit of this site.

Edit: An RP user's defamatory statements were removed.
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