Posted on Jan 6, 2014
No Hat, No Salute Areas...suggestion, mandatory, order, convenience? Which is it?
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OK I almost got into it today but I exercised great restraint (you'd all be proud). Im in a course right now at a building where there apparently is a no hat, salute zone right before the entrance in a breeze way.<div>Now there is a sign that is about 12x12 inches 1 ft off the ground behind a bush that says this, and that is all it says. That is not the entrance I came in, but it is the exit (where there is no sign posted). </div><div>So Im walking out the door on the way to my car. I put my hat on. There's about 10 soldiers in PT's walking by me on the way in with their caps on. Behind them is an SFC Drill. Mind you there's a sever cold front coming in and the wind is blowing 20+mph with a windchill of about 19 right now.</div><div>He says to me "hey sergeant, this is a no hat no salute zone." I'm range walking because I'm freezing and I say "ok, thank you." And continue to move out briskly. (not removing my hat)</div><div>Then from about 20 meters away he enters knife hand mode. "HEY SGT! THATS NOT A SUGGESTION, THATS AN ORDER" Now normally I engage in a conversation at this point but because I was freezing I took off the hat walked 5 more steps and put it on when I was back in real Army zone.</div><div>So my question is, in these areas is this an order? I thought that these areas existed because they are high traffic areas where many officers are in and out and don't need to be saluting 300 times in and out of the building. More of a convince thing. I had no idea this was MANDATORY and that I MUST remove my head gear in these areas.</div><div>So what's the deal?</div>
NCOES
Saluting
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 37
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In the Air Force, the flight line is designated a "no hat, no salute" area, largely due to the hand signals used, and the danger of a hat being sucked down a jet intake. That said, you are perfectly legal to wear the cold weather fleece hat or the "Russian hat" on the flight line, because it is considered PPE.
I have never understood why some people feel the need to make others miserable for the sake of a regulation. the CSAF recently told us "if it's stupid, stop doing it...even if it's written down".
I have never understood why some people feel the need to make others miserable for the sake of a regulation. the CSAF recently told us "if it's stupid, stop doing it...even if it's written down".
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What I think is ironic is it's a rule to break a rule, but you better not break that broken rule?
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Below is a picture to the entrance of this no man land. On the left hand side in the bushes you'll see the small sign. I also took a close up of the sign. Now tell me why on earth I should think to take my hat off when walking up here. Especially if Im walking down the right side.
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SSG Robert Burns
LOL, someone really needs to explain to me what trolling is, cuz Im not up to speed on it yet. And yes sir that is the building.
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LTC (Join to see)
Ha! Fort Jackson…they've got them at the Strom Thurmond building too..out in the quad. I never got stopped for wearing head gear in those areas…wasn't tracking that it was mandatory. The only place I'm tracking that headgear is not allowed outside is on flight lines.
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LTC (Join to see)
But - I do believe that the Garrison Commander can authorize / approve such areas.
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I am really surprised no one has an answer for this. Leads me to believe that it is really just a convenience than an "order."
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MAJ (Join to see)
They are afraid of what your response to them will be. I personally seem to lean towards your interpretation. It seems a bit silly to make someone take their hat off outside.
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SSG Robert Burns
That is my thought. I think the purpose is so that officers are saluting like crazy. Since you don't salute inside or when you are not wearing a hat I think is where the term comes from "No hat, no salute." But I don't think it's like they are ORDERING you to not wear your hat.
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I've always interpreted it as a "hey you don't have to wear your hat here" but I always thought that you could. It's not like you're inside the building.
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SFC (Join to see)
In 13 years Ive only been required to remove my headgear on the flightline. I do agree that those areas are a courtesy, not a requirement, and it seems to me that the Drill Sergeant was trying to show his privates his muscles.
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SSG Robert Burns It's an order. No cover zones *might* be placed for convenience sometimes, but we had Marines coming in to our facility sometimes to file flight plans and we had to tell them that it's a no cover zone. It was a major safety issue because we were close to a runway and a cover with a bill and no metal device could damage an engine, a garrison cap or a cover with a metal device could destroy one.
As an E3, it can be nerve-wracking to have to go up to an E8/E9 and tell them they have to remove their cover, but that's part of what my job was. It was serious enough that if a candy wrapper or a sheet of paper blew out on to the taxiway or runway we would shut down the airfield until it could be retrieved, and we might have to do a FOD walkdown.
Whether or not they understood why, our visitor always removed their covers when I informed them it was a no cover zone, which I'm grateful for because I never had to deal with the difficult issue of having to remove someone from the area who outranked me.
As an E3, it can be nerve-wracking to have to go up to an E8/E9 and tell them they have to remove their cover, but that's part of what my job was. It was serious enough that if a candy wrapper or a sheet of paper blew out on to the taxiway or runway we would shut down the airfield until it could be retrieved, and we might have to do a FOD walkdown.
Whether or not they understood why, our visitor always removed their covers when I informed them it was a no cover zone, which I'm grateful for because I never had to deal with the difficult issue of having to remove someone from the area who outranked me.
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As a former Navy man I am used to the rule of thumb that you don't salute if you are not wearing a cover or in a formation. The first time I heard "Present Arms" given as a command to salute was during a change of command ceremony and did not know to salute till everyone else in the formation saluted.
That a SFC corrected you with so much enthusiasm indicates to me that he was protecting his turf. Probably a smoking area that he uses frequently.
That a SFC corrected you with so much enthusiasm indicates to me that he was protecting his turf. Probably a smoking area that he uses frequently.
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I think this is a good thread for those we are trying to get to join can see the substance of some things we discuss between us as current and former military, soft spoken as well as informational and mentoring types of postings.
We also have fun at times while remaining professional.
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Suspended Profile
This is why I LOVE and will MISS the SOF world. You don't have to worry about the little petty stuff. By the way, SSG Burns that drill was insane. You can't yell at someone for wearing headgear outside. If it was in a regulation, you should have told him to show it to you. Drills find random reasons to yell at someone.
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