Posted on Jul 6, 2015
Not everyone wants to be a leader. Why do we force members who are otherwise great at what they do into positions they don't want?
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It wasn't very long ago in our Navy that it was relatively common to see a 25 year E4 piped over the side for retirement. These folks were masters of their rates (MOS) and undoubtedly the guys you wanted in your division when shyt got real. They just for whatever reason were completely happy on the deck plates and didn't care to advance or take on leadership roles. I believe there is still a place in our Navy for guys like this. They did more to keep ships at sea and aircraft in the air than all the admirals put together. Why do we force members who are otherwise great at what they do into positions they don't want?? And how much institutional knowledge have we forced out??
Advancement
Retention
Leadership
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 89
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CPO Gregory Smith you are absolutely correct that there are those individuals that are very happy with their jobs and positions (I can only speak for the Army), but I guess the question is how do we build a fair and equitable compensation program for those individuals without promoting them into the necessary positions that our units and formations are built on? We would have to come up with some type of cost of living increase based on years of service, since the current system maxes out at the particular grade and number of years of service. Do you or any other RP members have thoughts on that issue? Also, I don't think there are as many of those types of individuals today (I think they are the minority). Most of the young individuals coming in now want to get promoted, want more responsibility, and want to grow professionally. Just my personal opinion and observation!
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
SSgt (Join to see) I can see exactly what you are saying and you have some really valid points. I think you may be closer to the situation then a Colonel who just retired in 2012 and hasn't been as close to the situation as you have. Thank you for the feedback.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
I spent 4.5 years working with the German Army in remote Artillery Detachments. One thing the German Army does, and does well is allows Officers to stay at lower grades. I had 1LT's and Captains who had been in the same battery for years. By far they were the best officers knowledge wise of any officer American or NATO that I have ever worked with. The battery Commander had been a commander 3 times already. Loved doing it, the Platoon leader knew operations in his sleep. A better run firing section I have never seen, equipment rarely ever broke down as it was well maintained.
Often I think the British system of a truly regimental one slows the pace of promotions down, but improves Espirit de Corps, our regimental system is but a regiment in name only. I mean I wear Ordnance regimental crest, but has anyone seen an Ordnance regiment floating around? A foolish trinket on a uniform IMHO. If we are going to be regimental, then be regimental and everyone lives and breathes for the regiment.
Often I think the British system of a truly regimental one slows the pace of promotions down, but improves Espirit de Corps, our regimental system is but a regiment in name only. I mean I wear Ordnance regimental crest, but has anyone seen an Ordnance regiment floating around? A foolish trinket on a uniform IMHO. If we are going to be regimental, then be regimental and everyone lives and breathes for the regiment.
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PO3 Jody Wangen
I got out in1989. have worked as contract since then. as a supply tech. as a worker, not management. in the real world only one in 100 become management. military tries to force everyone to be management. this is not real life. career airmen was a good thing.
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SPC Tony Fewell
I agree, I have worked overseas as a contractor for many years, and some of my co-workers were retired from the British Army and they all had spent their entire careers with the same regiment. They lived and breathed for the regiments.
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the Army is the same way and that is really sad. When I first joined the Army they had Specialist grades where a technician or a truck driver, who liked being a truck driver could advance and get promoted but was never made a leader. They need to go back to those.
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SPC David Wyckoff
The Spec ranking system was gone by the time I got in, but my NCO's bemoaned it's loss for this very reason.
In fact, I had a team leader that was very happy being a SPC/P. He had been in almost ten years and loved doing his job. He was a wealth of information, but after Desert Storm there was a drawdown. As there is after every war. They told him get his hard stripes or get out. He got out and we lost all that experience and knowledge.
In fact, I had a team leader that was very happy being a SPC/P. He had been in almost ten years and loved doing his job. He was a wealth of information, but after Desert Storm there was a drawdown. As there is after every war. They told him get his hard stripes or get out. He got out and we lost all that experience and knowledge.
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SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres
he was still afforded an opportunity, sounds like he was not acting at all like a leader. A leader constantly advances his or herself. Shouldering responsibility and taking charge. He was offered an opportunity to learn more, do more, etc. And he refused, not very leader--like He liked being in charge as a Specialist , but didn't want to carry the weight of the chevrons( figuratively and literally).
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CPO Gregory Smith Great Post! I'm not in the Navy but have brought up a similar argument in my field. Not everyone is capable of being a leader, and I have seen excellent technicians and tacticians forced out of a job they were good at and into a leadership role they were not due to promotions. I am of the mindset that key leadership positions should be interviewed for and only given to the very best -- People should not be promoted into leadership positions. Look at the private sector: engineers, medical professionals, programers etc. are paid very well to do a job and don't necessarily manage anyone. The same jobs in the military would, at some point due to promotions, force those technicians into leadership roles.
Interesting point, and something to be discussed as continual advances in technology create the need for military members of increased technical prowess, who deserve promotions as a reward for their ability, but who may not want or be fit to lead.
Interesting point, and something to be discussed as continual advances in technology create the need for military members of increased technical prowess, who deserve promotions as a reward for their ability, but who may not want or be fit to lead.
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SPC Chris Forzetting
The Army used to have the specialist ranks go up to an S-7 or maybe even S-8 equivalent, but they were still specialists (technicians rather than group leaders). They phased that out, but I think that it was a reasonable response to just this situation. The "up or out" policy has gotten rid of a lot of talent this way...
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