Posted on Jun 2, 2015
Now that a US appeals court has ruled against the NSA, is Snowden vindicated?
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"Last month a US appeals court ruled the NSA's post-9/11 dragnet of millions of Americans' phone-call records is illegal, noting that a secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) order "leaked by former government contractor Edward Snowden" and published by The Guardian served as the catalyst for the decision"
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/questions-about-snowden-2015-6#ixzz3buYtVGYK
http://www.businessinsider.com/questions-about-snowden-2015-6
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/questions-about-snowden-2015-6#ixzz3buYtVGYK
http://www.businessinsider.com/questions-about-snowden-2015-6
Intelligence
Snowden
Constitution
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 13
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I don't trust Congress. If I believed that my government would convict me of treason for trying to provide evidence that the system is harmful to Americans, I'd consider releasing the info and bailing, too. IDK if it's right, but it's certainly understandable.
That now a government agency has given a ruling that would seem to support some of the conclusions that most draw from the info Snowden released doesn't have any relevance to whether his actions were the correct ones.
That now a government agency has given a ruling that would seem to support some of the conclusions that most draw from the info Snowden released doesn't have any relevance to whether his actions were the correct ones.
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Believe me...the government is still listening, watching, monitoring everything. Even the NSA was granted the ability to continue monitoring "ongoing investigations."
FBI using low-flying spy planes over U.S.: AP
Small aircraft have video, cellphone surveillance capability; bureau says they're used for specific investigations; civil liberties concerns raised
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MAJ (Join to see)
PVT (Join to see), excellent post; I almost posted this one myself. I've been following this story since spotting one of these planes west of Minneapolis, where I live. Attached is a local story that ran on it. When I spotted it, my wife told me I was being paranoid! Ha! It is likely they are monitoring the large Somali population we have up here, however, the capabilities these planes possess are disturbing.
Mysterious low-flying plane over Twin Cities raises questions of surveillance
The small aircraft circled Minneapolis, the Mall of America and Southdale for hours late at night.
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I don't know the full answer here.
I do know that the disclosures he made have started an important conversation. I do know the award winning movie "Citizenfour" is worth watching, as is the John Oliver interview of Snowden. I have yet to read the Glen Greenwald articles but imagine them worth reading as well. I know that this court cited the disclosures as evidence that helped in the ruling. I know that previous attempts had been made by people trying to work within the system going to the House Intelligence Committee and elsewhere.
I know he went straight to China, then Russia trying to go possibly to Ecuador, Cuba, Venzuela etc. These are not nations known for their liberal individual rights and are instead known for their intelligence interest in the United States.
This is complicated, but it's an important issue.
I do know that the disclosures he made have started an important conversation. I do know the award winning movie "Citizenfour" is worth watching, as is the John Oliver interview of Snowden. I have yet to read the Glen Greenwald articles but imagine them worth reading as well. I know that this court cited the disclosures as evidence that helped in the ruling. I know that previous attempts had been made by people trying to work within the system going to the House Intelligence Committee and elsewhere.
I know he went straight to China, then Russia trying to go possibly to Ecuador, Cuba, Venzuela etc. These are not nations known for their liberal individual rights and are instead known for their intelligence interest in the United States.
This is complicated, but it's an important issue.
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I've been against the Patriot Act since Day 1. Nobody, not even the SCOTUS who are all a lot more educated than I am, can convince me that it is somehow NOT unconstitutional. How exactly are my private phone conversations a matter of national security?
Snowden knew that too, but he had the balls to actually do something about it.
Snowden knew that too, but he had the balls to actually do something about it.
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No. He could have worked within the system to make the system work. He chose "glory" instead
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Capt Richard I P.
SGM (Join to see), others had tried to work within the system before. The documentary Citizenfour doesn't depict a glory-hound, in fact he appears very concerned that the story not become about him, but remain about the programs.
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PVT (Join to see)
Giving up a 6-figure salary, and living in Russia doesn't exactly equate to "glory" by my reckoning.
*edited for brevity
*edited for brevity
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SGM (Join to see)
SFC Lynden, Snowden himself states he expected a different more positive reception; when it became clear the response was not positive, he looked for options and finding few ended up in Russia. He is not exactly living the life or Riley nor as a Pauper. He painted himself in a corner. Note being a Whistleblower requires making protected disclosures, which he did not do. Uncovering the use of phone records was a positive thing that could have been protected. Following up with leaking of other classified documents was not. There are hundreds of examples in America of people who stood up and took on the system--putting their careers on the line to do what is right and won--and who did not run away. They pay a price for those actions. I am one of them .
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Tough one. Perhaps he saw no other method to let the populace know what was going on? He obviously will not be treated any differently by this administration as they just came out yesterday saying they want him to get back to America to face trial. I don't know. I doubt we'll know everything about why he did what he did for at least another year or two.
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Depends on which side you're on...seems he should be protetced as a whistleblower, but that'll be an embarrasment to the government.
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PVT (Join to see)
Perhaps this is why he didn't try working within the system. Whistleblowers are not exactly embraced under the current administration.
The Obama administration's pursuit of whistleblowers is taking a toll
The US dropped 13 Points in the Global Press Freedom Index
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SGM (Join to see)
SFC Lynden, I would like to believe that. However, Snowden himself seems to relate how he deliberately infiltrated the system to dig up dirt. True Whistleblowers enounter dirt and deal with it. They don't run away to foreign countries--although they may have to duck too often--think Watergate, Pentagon Papers, etc. He could have used many other approaches. Perhaps he got very bad advice. In any case, sure, no bureaucraZy wants a self-righteous barracks lawyer in their midst. The self-righteous tend to be self-focused, not concerned about the greater good although they tend to hide behind it as a rationalization. The true measure is the actual good done, if any. Yes, as a result whistleblowers are not embraced by those whom they threaten. Do you expect another outcome? Confident, enlightened leaders can handle a challenge. Weak, corrupt leaders cannot. A strong, confident, enlightened whistleblower has the guts to deal with both.
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PVT (Join to see)
SGM (Join to see) Which part would you like to believe? That Snowden tried working within the system before going to wikileaks, or that the obama administration is unfriendly to whistleblowers? Thank you for your own courage, by the way.
I have a hard time believing that Snowden is acting in a selfish manner. If that were the case I think he would be much better off than he is now. The information he has would be worth a lot in terms of his personal well being if he were in the mood to profit from it. I think you could make a pretty strong case that the information he released has done quite a bit of good for the public at large. Widespread awareness of what our gov't is doing is a good thing. Given the information in the above article I can't say that I blame him for not wanting to come forward within the system, but for also believing that the information, nevertheless, needed to come out.
I have a hard time believing that Snowden is acting in a selfish manner. If that were the case I think he would be much better off than he is now. The information he has would be worth a lot in terms of his personal well being if he were in the mood to profit from it. I think you could make a pretty strong case that the information he released has done quite a bit of good for the public at large. Widespread awareness of what our gov't is doing is a good thing. Given the information in the above article I can't say that I blame him for not wanting to come forward within the system, but for also believing that the information, nevertheless, needed to come out.
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SGM (Join to see)
No administration is friendly to "whistleblowers"...as for me, I stood up twice all the way to DOD and won, but it was very very painful for two years. Snowden seems to have underestimated international gov reactions, so he hasn't gained as much as he might have hoped. I agree that some information needed to be out; others no, not in the manner it was released. NY Times, Washington post could have dealt with him and protected his identity. He chose other routes. There does not seem to be a record of him attempted to use the normal system. He 's made many statements about his "plan".
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In my opinion he showed the break down of our government when it comes to the constitution, when it comes to the justice system most of the wistle blowers that came forward were prosecuted. When it comes to justice and when you look at snowden and gen David Petraeus, gen Petraeus got a rist slap. So in a way the lady justice is skewed favorably for those who have connections and come from power while the people on the bottom get the full full penal code system tost at them
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He released a shotgun blast of information, revealed sources/methods, and gave our adversaries assistance. Both him and Manning could have gave info to congress if they had misgivings , been whistle blower protected, and not spilled. Snow den made a victory lap to many adviserary nations in the process, spilling all the way. So one or two specific programs are under scrutiny, NOT his call. Treasonous
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