Posted on Feb 22, 2014
Off Base In Uniform Hours After Close of Business (COB)? Epidemic?
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After coming back from deployment I don't know if I am being too harsh or if I have just become overly military minded but, everywhere I go I am seeing soldiers, lower enlisted to senior enlisted and officer grades alike, everywhere in their uniforms. At first seeing people at Wal-Mart and at fast food restaurants wasn't a big deal but, I have started to see soldiers at the mall (20-30min drive from post) and even a few coming out of the movie theaters!? The soldier in me wants me to pull that person aside and ask why they are still in uniform regardless of rank but, so far I have left it alone mainly because most are with family or multiple people and calling them out feels a little over the top. Is this a big problem where you are stationed? What do you think should be said to these soldiers if anything? <div><br><div>If you feel that this is a good/reasonable post please vote it up and give me your honest opinions thanks!</div><div>***UPDATE*** Made my first correction tonight!!! With great TACT may I add.</div><div>This took place at the Wal-Mart off of Wilma Rudolph around 2130.</div><div><br></div><div>I walked past this sergeant (E-5) and knew I had to say something, I asked him if he was off duty and he said yes he was, soo I said, okay well I work at Division and we are not allowed to wear our uniforms after duty hours, I don't know your situation but it is almost 2200 and I do not believe this is authorized.</div><div>He smirked and kind of chuckled and said well I need a few groceries then I am headed to the house. I said roger that sergeant I didn't know if you were new to Campbell or something so this was just a professional courtesy have a good night and he didn't reply. </div><div><br></div><div>Then I walked off and snapped this picture</div></div>
Rules
Uniforms
Customs and Courtesies
Integrity
Edited 12 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 187
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Although I do not like wearing my uniform when I get off, sometimes the wife will call and ask to meet for dinner, a quick trip to the mall, or such. Even though you do not like there is nothing against regs to say I have to be in civilians to go off base.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
Well SSG I agree to an extent. But it was drilled into my head at an early stage in my AD military, that after 2000 hrs you were not supposed to be off post in uniform unless on duty. Never knew the reg and never questioned my Sgt's.
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SSG (Join to see)
The problem today is we are conducting ourselves in a matter that "was drilled into my head" and we "never knew the reg". Unless you know the reg can you really enforce it? We just had a NCOPD yesterday and customs and courtesies was the topic. I was always taught that you when approach an officer and yours or his hands were full you were still expected to salute. Has been drilled into my head since AIT. Little did I know:
Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when
the senior or subordinate, or both are what?
.In civilian attire.
.Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere.
.Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make
saluting impracticable.
.Working as a member of a detail, or engaged in sports or
social functions where saluting would present a safety hazard.
.In public places such as theaters, churches, and in
public conveyances.
.In the ranks of a formation.
So, we need to spend a little more time debunking the drilling of "cause that the regs" and start researching them.
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SPC Christopher Smith
SSG Spratlin, I agree with you that more people, not just NCOs but everyone needs to do more personal research, my only issue is the blind eye many people want to turn when you present them a Regulation. I've seen it happen on here, and even more so in person.
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I been there was tdy in AK and at a bar when I saw a Maj. there in uniform, I called him on it and was told to shove off(polite edit). he did tell me his unit so I let him be till the next day called his first shirt got a call from his CO bad day for maj.
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It is a severe issue. Pisses me off also(glad I am out). Problem is, 95% of soldiers(my percentage) treat the US Army as just another 9 to 5 profession. You don't see this issue with the USMC. They police their own. We (US Army) don't.
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If they are wearing the uniform correctly and not athe a bar what is the issue? Heaven forbid we make Joe''s life any easier by being abl ed to get groceries or eat dinner on the way home. Arbitrary policies like this are what is soul crushing about the regular Army. Like not walking on the grass FFS!!!
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The problem for the Army is that they made the ACU the new “all purpose” uniform. There is no longer a distinction between a field uniform and garrison. There was a time when the uniform appropriate to the context was the soldier’s only clothing.
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I am stationed in Germany and we are not allowed wear our uniform of base unless driving straight home with no stops. I also think it's interesting to note his shoe choice, His uniform appears to be abu's yet he is in tennis shoes. Maybe he has a waiver tho so I cant say for sure that is out of regs
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Realizing this post is more than a year old....just want throw this thought out there: My first question, even before asking about relevant regulations and command policies, is intention. What are trying to accomplish with the on the spot correction? Intent stems from an underlying goal and determines how you will approach the situation.
In this scenario, intent is key because I need to know if you are trying to correct the NCO as a "gotcha" moment (which is to say to bring attention to your "greatness") or for the improvement of the soldier or even for the sake of protecting the image of Army (i.e. someone doing something in uniform that brings discredit to the armed services as is against regulation).
Correction may vary well be warranted in the circumstance at hand, but the need for correction does not erode your responsibility to adhere to military bearing and to let the SM explain why they are currently dressed in uniform. At Benning, for example, soldiers in uniform are everywhere on and off duty hours. They're not uniform because they just woke up this morning and wanted to be - they are required to be while out on pass from one of the multiple schools here or in between training phases. Likewise, you have no idea if a soldier is coming off a CQ rotation, is a National Guard soldier going to Walmart at night to get something for the unit (something every reservist on here will understand and has probably done at least once), works an odd hour shift (the core functions of the base don't just shut down because it's after 1700), or any number of scenarios.
Lastly, before confronting someone, it's always a good idea to be able to cite the exact regulation they are breaking. I had an NCO once who thought I was out of uniform for wearing the CH Candidate insignia. I had to show him where the insignia was added to the latest edition of AR 670-1 as a requirement for my MOS.
So in summary:
1) Start by checking your ego at the door and ask whether you should confront another soldier.
2) Make sure you actually know the reg you are about to cite so as to not lose credibility.
3) Maintain military courtesies and bearing when confronting said soldier. (I.e. don't do what I saw earlier this week where a private cussed at a CSM for not following a command issued to trainees...before having his life flash before him when he realized he was talking to the CSM.)
In this scenario, intent is key because I need to know if you are trying to correct the NCO as a "gotcha" moment (which is to say to bring attention to your "greatness") or for the improvement of the soldier or even for the sake of protecting the image of Army (i.e. someone doing something in uniform that brings discredit to the armed services as is against regulation).
Correction may vary well be warranted in the circumstance at hand, but the need for correction does not erode your responsibility to adhere to military bearing and to let the SM explain why they are currently dressed in uniform. At Benning, for example, soldiers in uniform are everywhere on and off duty hours. They're not uniform because they just woke up this morning and wanted to be - they are required to be while out on pass from one of the multiple schools here or in between training phases. Likewise, you have no idea if a soldier is coming off a CQ rotation, is a National Guard soldier going to Walmart at night to get something for the unit (something every reservist on here will understand and has probably done at least once), works an odd hour shift (the core functions of the base don't just shut down because it's after 1700), or any number of scenarios.
Lastly, before confronting someone, it's always a good idea to be able to cite the exact regulation they are breaking. I had an NCO once who thought I was out of uniform for wearing the CH Candidate insignia. I had to show him where the insignia was added to the latest edition of AR 670-1 as a requirement for my MOS.
So in summary:
1) Start by checking your ego at the door and ask whether you should confront another soldier.
2) Make sure you actually know the reg you are about to cite so as to not lose credibility.
3) Maintain military courtesies and bearing when confronting said soldier. (I.e. don't do what I saw earlier this week where a private cussed at a CSM for not following a command issued to trainees...before having his life flash before him when he realized he was talking to the CSM.)
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This is an old rule. I believe military personnel in ANY uniform lets our citizens know America is safe! Just don't go out to drinking establishment and get drunk in any uniform would be my rule. MSG (Ret)
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I'm sure Fort Campbell has reasons for not allowing uniforms off base, but does it make sense? I'm retired and I know it's a big deal for civilians to see our Armed forces in uniform. One of the things the Army likes to preach is keeping the "working inform" clean and presentable. That's because they want to present that professional appearance to the public. There is no real reason at all soldiers should be barred from life because they are in a well presented uniform. It's not Opsec, when everyone knows the large percentage of the base is going to have soldiers. You can tell a young soldier even without the uniform.
Maybe this particular base has a separate issue, of soldiers wearing the uniform incorrectly or sloppy. That should be addressed every morning at formation, and I think that's what is not happening anymore. So to alleve officers and ncos from doing morning inspections, cause they all got excuses that they are busy, they started no uniforms off base. Which in my opinion is just pure laziness and mass punishment
Maybe this particular base has a separate issue, of soldiers wearing the uniform incorrectly or sloppy. That should be addressed every morning at formation, and I think that's what is not happening anymore. So to alleve officers and ncos from doing morning inspections, cause they all got excuses that they are busy, they started no uniforms off base. Which in my opinion is just pure laziness and mass punishment
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