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To what extent should a Warrant Officer be making on the spot corrections? By that I mean at what point does the disconnect of "NCO business occur". Too often I hear the phrase "that's NCO business Chief" but I have an inability to simply walk past a deficiency, honestly believing in the cliche' that "if you walk past a violation of standard, you just created a new one". Perhaps it is just this station, but it feels like a daily battle here, I am not able to go to the shoppette or the gym without running into a soldier who doesn't have the slightest clue what the 600-5 is much less what's contained inside of it. I'm not on a power trip by any means, I would much rather the NCOs square away their soldiers, but again, at what point is the disconnect between general policing and "NCO business"? I have a lot of non prior enlisted aviators in my unit who don't understand the struggle and choose to just ignore deficiencies. Honestly, am I outside of my lane by policing up as I see it. For example, just today as I entered the shoppette, I spoke to a SSG who was smoking right next to the door, I politely asked him if he knew he was within 50ft of the entrance/exit of a building, he told me "I see everyone else doing it all the time". Is it just a Korea-ism I've failed to grasp?
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 15
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<p>CW2 McCollum,</p><p> </p><p>You are never wrong in making a correction. Any NCO who tells you otherwise is wrong....people seem to forget that there's this little thing called "General Military Authority" and making an on the spot correction is everyone's responsibility.</p><p> </p><p>If you inform a soldier of a correction that needs to be made, you've done exactly what you're supposed to. Now if you were to stray over into the corrective action side of it, I could see an NCO telling you it was his business as the direct supervisor of said soldier.</p><p> </p><p>Keep up the fight for standards Chief, there's an abundance of leaders in the Army who don't care to do so.</p>
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Chief...by the time you found that issue, it is highly likely that a number of NCO's had seen it and done nothing about it. I'm the only LTC in my Squadron footprint, but for some GD reason, I am picking up trash all the time. How many enlisted and NCO's have walked that ground before me?? FAIL. By the time you got there, it BECAME officer business, because multiple NCO's decided they didn't want to make it NCO business. Anyone who is offended and tells you that it's NCO business needs to have a good skull-dragging. "No SGT...it used to be NCO business. Now it's officer business...and you're going to get some too." Grr. I should have been a CSM.
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1SG (Join to see)
COL (Join to see) and CW3 (Join to see) : This brings back memories of days as a first sergeant. I used to make almost the exact same statement to both NCOs and Officers of my units and it was part of my and the commanders inbrief. If an officer has to make the on the spot correction or pick it up, then it does mean an NCO and Soldiers have let it pass. The next NCO that tells you that it's NCO business, I hope you will be sure to pass along with LTC Halvorson said. Well Said Colonel and well done Chief.
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CPT (Join to see)
Sir,
I try to remind my NCOs that there's no "NCO business", if/when I get involved....it now becomes a "leader's business".
I try to remind my NCOs that there's no "NCO business", if/when I get involved....it now becomes a "leader's business".
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COL (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see), I believe in NCO business. I believe there are things that all leaders CAN do, but there are things they shouldn't be concerned about at some point...because they trust their subordinates to do it, and in turn, those subordinates make it happen, enjoying the freedom of maneuver provided. Now...when those things fail to happen, it's a leader's job to get it done, no matter what your rank. I've seen a 2 Star General pick up a piece of trash and then skull drag a 1SG for not picking it up in front of him. Back to the idea that NCO business is necessary and important. If I spent all my time as a leader scuffing up people for not wearing their gear correctly or not topping off their vehicles, I wouldn't have time to do what a LTC needs to be doing. NCO business is what makes our Army amazing...because it allows officers to do what needs to be done in our lanes.
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CW2 McCollum,
Nothing wrong at all with a Warrant Officer making on the spot corrections. If someone is jacked up and need to be fixed then all leaders should say something. The concerning part to me is that you had to correct a SSG for smoking right outside the door of the shoppette and they used the excuse "I see everyone else doing it all the time." That is an excuse I'd expect from a PVT.
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Suspended Profile
Different branch of course, but here's my take:
If I were correcting a deficiency of someone else's subordinate, I would inform them of the deficiency, and instruct them to inform their supervisor of the correction. This way, I can ensure the deficiency is brought to the member's attention, and I can also make their supervisor aware of it in case if happens again in the future.
If the supervisor were to take issue with it, they can feel free to speak to me about it. Walking by something that needs correcting only leads to more problems down the road.
If I were correcting a deficiency of someone else's subordinate, I would inform them of the deficiency, and instruct them to inform their supervisor of the correction. This way, I can ensure the deficiency is brought to the member's attention, and I can also make their supervisor aware of it in case if happens again in the future.
If the supervisor were to take issue with it, they can feel free to speak to me about it. Walking by something that needs correcting only leads to more problems down the road.
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Everyone has the responsibility to address wrong doing, regardless of rank. To me, this is Soldier Business, not NCO business. Our ranks do not make us right or wrong, our actions do. If I need corrected, whether it's by a Warrant, A general, or a Private, it's not my place to be angry or offended at the corrector, instead the only feeling I SHOULD have is shame that I needed correcting in the first place...
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CW2 McCollum,
You are still a soldier so you are just as responsible for correcting soldiers as anyone else would be, enforcing the standards is not rank discriminate, now that being said NCO's these days are to worried about being buddy, buddy with their soldiers and can not seperate friendship and professionalism. This to me is the biggest reason for NCO's turning a blind eye to correcting soldiers when necessary. If it's NCO business, then the NCO needs to do his damn job. Chief do what you're doing, you are not wrong and if the NCO doesn't do his duties and resposibilities then grab him up and light a fire under his tail. I
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Regardless of rank, if a deficiency is observed it should be corrected. I have witnessed it and done it both up a down the chain. The soldiers, sailors and airman we are leading these days are very smart however bootcamp is much easier than when we went through it. They come to us lacking the discipline should be instilled early in their training. Bottom line, if it is observed and you know it is wrong you are charged with making it right, and do not tolerate any type of disrespect when trying to correct the deficiency.
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CW3 (Join to see) My question would be "why wouldn't a Warrant Officer make corrections?" Making on the spot corrections is not NCO business, it's leader business. As soon as you walk past a deficiency and allow that to occur, you (not you specifically) have not lowered the standard to that level.
One of the problems with today Army is people don't want to take the time and hold ourselves accountable. We would rather just walk on by and pretend it didn't happen.
Another issue I have seen is we have grown our junior leaders WAY TO FAST over the past decade or so....mostly due to the sustained conflict. We need to slow down and teach our junior leaders what right looks like, and that includes making on the spot corrections. Junior leaders, in my eyes are the CPL to SSG, WO1 to CW2, and 2LT to CPT. But, maybe that is just me!
One of the problems with today Army is people don't want to take the time and hold ourselves accountable. We would rather just walk on by and pretend it didn't happen.
Another issue I have seen is we have grown our junior leaders WAY TO FAST over the past decade or so....mostly due to the sustained conflict. We need to slow down and teach our junior leaders what right looks like, and that includes making on the spot corrections. Junior leaders, in my eyes are the CPL to SSG, WO1 to CW2, and 2LT to CPT. But, maybe that is just me!
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CW2,
You are an Officer, you lead the way! Doing on the spot Corrections as the other Officers and Senor Staff NCO and Staff NCO's I see Commented have told you comes with the Job and is an ongoing Battle for you. Remember This Sir you are there to do a Job and a big part of that job is to make sure Every Solder, Marine, Seaman, and Airmen you see is in Regulation specs. no matter if they be Active duty or Reserve. You are not there to be liked Sir you are there to Take Charge. Respect does not come from being nice and letting things go in these cases, Respect comes from you setting the Pace, Ensuring your Solders are fallowing the Regulations they signed the contract to fallow, and Discipline and Correct any solders that are out of Regs. and as you can See I was a what we call a non-rate (Terminal Lance Corporal ). This is the Second Discussion involving Korea Duty Station... Gentlemen you are the leaders "LEAD" if you are Consistent in your Enforcement of Military Regulations That is where you will start to earn the respect of those under you. To You Active and Veteran Service Members Here THANK YOU for your Service. and God Bless- Semper Fi
You are an Officer, you lead the way! Doing on the spot Corrections as the other Officers and Senor Staff NCO and Staff NCO's I see Commented have told you comes with the Job and is an ongoing Battle for you. Remember This Sir you are there to do a Job and a big part of that job is to make sure Every Solder, Marine, Seaman, and Airmen you see is in Regulation specs. no matter if they be Active duty or Reserve. You are not there to be liked Sir you are there to Take Charge. Respect does not come from being nice and letting things go in these cases, Respect comes from you setting the Pace, Ensuring your Solders are fallowing the Regulations they signed the contract to fallow, and Discipline and Correct any solders that are out of Regs. and as you can See I was a what we call a non-rate (Terminal Lance Corporal ). This is the Second Discussion involving Korea Duty Station... Gentlemen you are the leaders "LEAD" if you are Consistent in your Enforcement of Military Regulations That is where you will start to earn the respect of those under you. To You Active and Veteran Service Members Here THANK YOU for your Service. and God Bless- Semper Fi
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LCpl Steve Smith
As a Marine regardless of rank it was mine and every other Marines duty to Notice if someone or something was not in regs and fix the issue right then and there. We don't leave it for someone else to deal with. If it was someone of higher rank yeah you would be very tactful or report.
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