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<p>How do you feel about SMs, especially Leaders, addressing or referring to someone by pay grade instead of rank or position? Are you guilty of it? Do you correct SMs on it?</p>
If you read the post SSG Joaquin Goicoechea wrote, you may understand my post better:
"I am in passing and I over hear SSG A speaking to SSG B about a SSG C and instead of using his rank they refer to SSG C as "that E6". If this in fact is what you are referring to then I completely understand why it bothers you. "
If you read the post SSG Joaquin Goicoechea wrote, you may understand my post better:
"I am in passing and I over hear SSG A speaking to SSG B about a SSG C and instead of using his rank they refer to SSG C as "that E6". If this in fact is what you are referring to then I completely understand why it bothers you. "
Posted in these groups: 
Toxic Leadership
Toxic Leadership
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 43
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I usually hear it from Soldiers saying that they are going to the E-5 board or something along those lines, and I usually ask them are you going to the Sergeant Board, or are you just a pay grade?
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SFC (Join to see)
The NCOs are getting younger these days 19,20 & 21 year old sergeants with only thing in mind the money. Not really caring bout the responsibility of holding the rank of Sergeant these days.
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I see it as a good way to differenciate between the services so that you can determine someone's currently level of authority, but I do not feel it should be used to directly address someone. I have a former Navy E-6 that works with me civilian side and I cannot for the life of me remember all the Navy, Air Force, Marine, and Army ranks together, but knowing that he was an E-6 shows me the level of authority he earned. I also now know that he was a Petty Officer First Class and how that stacks up to the Army's Staff Sergeants.
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SGT (Join to see)
Sir, the most confusing thing when I was trying to remember the rank structure of the other branches was the senior NCO ranks. The Navy Officer rank structure took a while also.
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CPT Zachary Brooks
The pay grade is a nice off the cusp identifier of what authority level someone has, but I do not think that is how that person should be addressed.
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Paygrade is between the SM and DFAS. For everything else it's your rank.
Edit: AFI 1-1 para. 1.6.5 Titles of Address. Military personnel are addressed by their grade or title. Pay grade terms (e.g., E-9, O-6) are not to be used to address or identify military personnel.
Edit: AFI 1-1 para. 1.6.5 Titles of Address. Military personnel are addressed by their grade or title. Pay grade terms (e.g., E-9, O-6) are not to be used to address or identify military personnel.
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MSgt (Join to see)
You do not call a SMSgt "Senior". Airman Basic through Senior Airman are addressed by their full rank or "Airman". Staff Sergeant through Senior Master Sergeant are addressed by full rank or "Sergeant". 1st Sgts are called by their full rank, "1st Sgt" or "Sergeant" unless that 1st Sgt is a chief you can call them Chief.
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MSgt (Join to see)
Some people call the 1st Sergeant "1st Shirt" or "Shirt". It's not mentioned as a term of address in any regs, but is used as more of a traditional title.
In the AF any of the Top 3 (MSgt thru CMSgt) can be a first sergeant. The size of the unit over which the first sergeant is responsible determines what the rank of first sergeant is.
In the AF any of the Top 3 (MSgt thru CMSgt) can be a first sergeant. The size of the unit over which the first sergeant is responsible determines what the rank of first sergeant is.
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MSgt (Join to see)
I've never heard addressing a SMSgt as "Senior" to be disrespectful in and of itself; it's usually used as an informality, similar to how Marines might use the term "Gunny" toward a Gunnery Sergeant.
That said, the reg that governs how we address each other specifically prohibits it.
That said, the reg that governs how we address each other specifically prohibits it.
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To me, it goes right along with Soldiers addressing a 1SG as "Top". If you use the term "Top", don't even act like anything else offends you or should be corrected when addressing others. I also hear Soldiers addressing a CSM as that, "CSM", instead of "Sergeant Major". I've NEVER used "Top" or "CSM", those aren't ranks in the Army. Yes, I'm the NCO who actually addresses a MSG as "Master Sergeant", a 1SG as "First Sergeant", and a SGM and/or CSM as "Sergeant Major". They earned it, so they deserve the respect of the rank. And one day, when I earn it, I'll expect the same.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC, if you're a MSG and someone addresses you as "Sergeant Deason", would you be offended?
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SFC Stephen Hester
Who would ever address a Command Sergeant Major as "CSM"? That's a good way to get your head handed to you.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT Spratley, I wouldn't necessarily be "offended", I guess it's just a matter of preference. It's like being an E-5 and called a "buck sergeant". Some people are offended by it, some don't mind/care. I just think I would prefer to be addressed by the rank that I've earned. E-8 is a huge step so I feel like it should be separate from the title of E-5 thru E-7.
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My thoughts on this is that, for the most part, the rank given has been earned and therefore deserves to have proper title associated with it. I will caveat that there are SMs that are a drain on the army and are not even deserving of the title or pay grade that they hold.
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SGT (Join to see)
I'm glad to hear you think that way, sir. It's not the same as Officers and first names.
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Hey, some like the pay instead of the responsibility...I guess you're addressed how someone perceives your actions.
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SGT (Join to see)
MSG, I've been in a organization where most SMs referred to others by pay grade. Is this not as common as I thought?
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SGT (Join to see)
SGM Matthew Quick - 4 years later, I can't tell if you were trying to say others referred to me personally by pay grade (which wouldn't make much sense to assume given the context) for some reason or you were making a very general statement. You also didn't answer my question, though now I'd say the act is very common.
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If you refer to yourself as an "E-6" instead of a "SSG", you may as well call yourself a "Spec 6".
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC, how do you handle cases where SMs address or refer to others by pay grade? How many units have you seen this in?
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SSG (Join to see)
I completely agree, everytime I talk to someone either face to face or on the phone I introduce myself as SSG Hibbert and I always get funny looks and comments about it.
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1SG(P) (Join to see)
Simple, I just say, "He's a SFC, not an E-7". I also don't refer to "E-7s". I say "Sergeants First Class".<br>
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A Pay grade is just that a pay grade. The rank is the correct form of address.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC, how do you handle cases where SMs address or refer to others by pay grade? How many units have you seen this in?
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MSG (Join to see)
Its in every unit. It happens because SM's hear their superiors say "I hope I make 7" or when do you you to the e-6 board". I met an excellent CW5 who set this trend correct every time they heard it. I use them as an example and try to correct this when I hear it. It can be hard because I was one of those Soldiers who used the above statements.
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SGT (Join to see)
Do you see progress within your organization with these corrections, SFC? Who gives you the most resistance, Leaders, or junior-enlisted?
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SGT (Join to see)
SGT, how do you handle cases where SMs address or refer to others by pay grade? Have you seen this often throughout your TIS?
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