Posted on May 1, 2014
PHYSEC is not an intelligence function. Does your unit task the S2 anyhow?
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PHYSEC falls under the provost Marshall which in the MP manual states they fall under the G3/5/7. Not G2.
I understand that at the BN level most people don't have PMO reps. However it's still an S3 function. They have S2 running around being in charge of key control and other nonsense and then wonder why they aren't experts. Then when the units fail inspection they freak out. Sure the S2 can read the manual and learn but they don't get formal training. They should be consulting S3 or PMO.
Believe it or not antiterrorism isn't an intelligence function either.
This irritates me mainly because of the expectation to be experts not trying to get people out of duties.
My point is you need to be doing intel work not non intel. Because doing a bunch of non intel work in garrison devalues the S2 section and then when you deploy you're more likely to be dismissed. The S2 should have a mostly intel mission in garrison. For training purposes and to establish yourself as an intel job.
Also while I have you reading this cache is pronounced CASH not cash-AY since that word is usually brought up in intel briefs :D
I understand that at the BN level most people don't have PMO reps. However it's still an S3 function. They have S2 running around being in charge of key control and other nonsense and then wonder why they aren't experts. Then when the units fail inspection they freak out. Sure the S2 can read the manual and learn but they don't get formal training. They should be consulting S3 or PMO.
Believe it or not antiterrorism isn't an intelligence function either.
This irritates me mainly because of the expectation to be experts not trying to get people out of duties.
My point is you need to be doing intel work not non intel. Because doing a bunch of non intel work in garrison devalues the S2 section and then when you deploy you're more likely to be dismissed. The S2 should have a mostly intel mission in garrison. For training purposes and to establish yourself as an intel job.
Also while I have you reading this cache is pronounced CASH not cash-AY since that word is usually brought up in intel briefs :D
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 12
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I have to agree with everyone here. I've been doing PHYSEC and PERSEC things my entire career and primarily only have the opportunity to do intel when deployed (I haven't been lucky enough to go to a Strategic Assignment yet). I think (and have always thought) our MOS should be split in two. The two sections would consist of Intelligence Analysts who do exactly what that title says and that is all they do, analyze intelligence. The second section would be Intelligence Specialists that take care of PERSEC, PHYSEC, foreign travel and all the other administrative functions that unfortunately occupy 90% of our time.
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SFC (Join to see)
If I were king for a day...it would be a new MOS for Enlisted Members and it would have to be an additional duty for Officers or Warrants. I couldn't ever see a need for a CW4 or LTC to be stuck solely as a SSO with the exception of Corps level and higher. It seems that would deadline to many careers, but you could easily be an E8 and serve as the SSO at division in lieu of an Officer in my opinion.
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SFC (Join to see)
You have to consider units that barely have the personnel to meet the requirements you are scoffing at. I have a BDE with only 5 personnel assigned. Two of these are officers. I have two BNs and a total of about 2,000 personnel that I am responsible for in intelligence/security manners. Add to this, we just picked up an intel heavy mission for some guys at PAFB. To say we could use someone that is a functional expert in just administrative intel is an understatement. However, in fairness, when I was at my last BCT, sure we had plenty of people for these "additional duties" but not all units have extensive MTOEs or even are lucky enough to operate at 100% strength.
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SFC (Join to see)
I'm hardly scoffing SFC Burke, but I have yet to see an S-3 that wasn't eyeballs deep in taskings and additional duties. I guess what is one more?
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SSG Theodore Scherer
SFC Burke,
Since I have been in Hawaii I have met with the unfortunate circumstance of being an admin junkie. In the last 3 years I have done zero intel work. Now I am not complaining by any means, I have gotten plenty of certifications and OJT regarding the admin side of the house which can translate over well, but my skills as an analyst are diminishing. I haven't done real intel work since I last deployed in 2011. I was placed on Rear D and had to do admin work when I first got here (I had just redployed a few months earlier and the unit wouldn't let me go) then I moved to a BN S-2 our shop consists of 1 Officer myself and another analyst. We have very limited time to do actual intel work, granted we try to push out an INTSUM twice a week based on our battalions mission, but thats about the extent of it. I am currently slotted Intel Oversight,PHYSEC Officer, Key Custodian, AT Officer, OPSEC Officer Security Manager for my battalion and UPL for my company. So yeah, I feel you pain when it comes to what you said about units not have personnel requirements. Meanwhile you have the S3 that has almost 3 times as many people as we do and for some reason can't take PHYSEC off our hands, or Key Control. I do not know why Key Control falls to the S2, we can't inspect ourselves to make sure it is being done right. Not to mention those other areas, like AT are full time jobs, our unit has been without a certified and full implemented AT plan in well over a 2 years. Every time we try to work on it something always comes up, we get sidetracked and becomes forgotten once again.
Since I have been in Hawaii I have met with the unfortunate circumstance of being an admin junkie. In the last 3 years I have done zero intel work. Now I am not complaining by any means, I have gotten plenty of certifications and OJT regarding the admin side of the house which can translate over well, but my skills as an analyst are diminishing. I haven't done real intel work since I last deployed in 2011. I was placed on Rear D and had to do admin work when I first got here (I had just redployed a few months earlier and the unit wouldn't let me go) then I moved to a BN S-2 our shop consists of 1 Officer myself and another analyst. We have very limited time to do actual intel work, granted we try to push out an INTSUM twice a week based on our battalions mission, but thats about the extent of it. I am currently slotted Intel Oversight,PHYSEC Officer, Key Custodian, AT Officer, OPSEC Officer Security Manager for my battalion and UPL for my company. So yeah, I feel you pain when it comes to what you said about units not have personnel requirements. Meanwhile you have the S3 that has almost 3 times as many people as we do and for some reason can't take PHYSEC off our hands, or Key Control. I do not know why Key Control falls to the S2, we can't inspect ourselves to make sure it is being done right. Not to mention those other areas, like AT are full time jobs, our unit has been without a certified and full implemented AT plan in well over a 2 years. Every time we try to work on it something always comes up, we get sidetracked and becomes forgotten once again.
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During my last deployment I ran to the S2 to find out if some photos I intended to release violated OPSEC. Our BDE S2 was always very helpful but when the NCOIC casually told me S3 is responsible for PHYSEC and OPSEC, I just stood there with my mind blown. It was like when S6 told our DCO they couldn't fix the air conditioning (lol).
Anyways, last Thursday during my STT class, I informed my Soldiers of the proper functions of an S2 so hopefully they aren't part of the problem in the future for intel.
Anyways, last Thursday during my STT class, I informed my Soldiers of the proper functions of an S2 so hopefully they aren't part of the problem in the future for intel.
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CPT Zachary Brooks
I'll still blame you if I get public affairs guys asking me OPSEC questions, after I solve their problems for them.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
Haha well sir it's always S2 freaking out at PAO if there's a photo on FB they don't like so I don't want to hear it.
Besides, those S2 nerds liked when I visited because I was the only girl who ever talked to them lol.
Besides, those S2 nerds liked when I visited because I was the only girl who ever talked to them lol.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
But seriously, in that case S2 was kind of their own worst enemy. They continuously performed PHYSEC and OPSEC and rarely told anyone it wasn't their job so of course we didn't know to not go there for guidance.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
Oh absolutely different SSG Sedlacek. SOCOM is always subject to different rules and whatnot. To clarify the S2 by no means was the release authority. I just like getting a second opinion when I have questionable photos.
Your decision trumped the SOTF commander? I've definitely never heard of that but I have no experience with how SPEC OPS function when it comes to their PAO.
Your decision trumped the SOTF commander? I've definitely never heard of that but I have no experience with how SPEC OPS function when it comes to their PAO.
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As a former S2 (now an S6) at my last position during the last 12 months my jobs included:
Physical Security
Operational Security
Safety
Unit Mobility
Suicide Intervention / Readiness
As well as filling in as the AS3, S1, S4, and S6 for short periods of time. My unit's original plan was "Give it to the S2" when they had an additional duty because we "do nothing in garrison" but once they found out I love to be busy and take on every task with vigor it changed the unit policy to "Give it to Brooks"
Amusing how these things work.
Physical Security
Operational Security
Safety
Unit Mobility
Suicide Intervention / Readiness
As well as filling in as the AS3, S1, S4, and S6 for short periods of time. My unit's original plan was "Give it to the S2" when they had an additional duty because we "do nothing in garrison" but once they found out I love to be busy and take on every task with vigor it changed the unit policy to "Give it to Brooks"
Amusing how these things work.
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MSG Wade Huffman
Sir, perspective is everything! You have made the situation work in your favor. Kudos!
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CW2 (Join to see)
I got you sir. I need to update the op. Because my point is you need to be doing intel work not non intel. Because doing a bunch of non intel work in garrison devalues the S2 section and then when you deploy you're more likely to be dismissed.
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CPT (Join to see)
"Actually sir/ma'am, Force Protection is a 3-function. I will be happy to help LT Newguy/gal get spun up on it as soon as I finish up COL Yourboss's brief." And then I actually support the person in the 3 shop. You don't do your Soldiers a favor by swinging at every pitch. Even if you fall on your sword and do it all yourself, it still takes away from the S2 mission. You have to consider that when your BN CDR goes to BDE meetings and the BDE S2 or BDE CDR asks, "aren't you getting this intell from your 2?" your BN CDR will just say, "no." He/She is not going to admit that you have been over-tasked with garbage.
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CPT (Join to see)
Excellent points, CPT Wolfer. I was waiting for some to bring this up. It does feel good to take on many tasks and to succeed. But likely, your soldiers are overworked and stressed about wearing so many hats. Also, it's almost always better to be superior at the few tasks you can handle, than mediocre at the many tasks you can't becuase you're too overloaded to invest the amount of time needed to be truly great at your work.
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