Posted on Apr 7, 2015
LTC Yinon Weiss
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As if the act of murder wasn't bad enough, the end of the video shows him handcuffing the victim... who may have been still alive, and walking away. Watching how care free he was about the whole thing, including walking away at the end, leads me to believe that this isn't the kind of thing a good cop just did on a bad day. I imagine that this police officer has victimized people to various degrees throughout his entire career. How his peers on the force have not done anything about it is a little worrisome. Law enforcement do so much good in this country, it's so unfortunate to see this be how they are perceived by so many.

More on the story: http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/07/us/south-carolina-officer-charged-murder/index.html

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXO3Ix_GIyI
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There are far more incidents of police shooting black men than of police shooting other minorities or whites. Some of these are justified. Statistics show black men are arrested at a rate over 10x that of whites. Some of it is legitimate, some of it is pure prejudice.

An example of the latter: a rich white man with some powder coke, no biggie, a black man with a small rock of crack - 20 years...

In this case, the dead man is alleged to have taken the cops stun gun in the scuffle. That is ADW and resisting arrest pure and simple, even if the man was not guilty of a crime prior to that. That being said, when the man is running away, he is no longer a threat.

I agree that this cop needs to be prosecuted - this is far more blatant than any other recent case. The thing is, though, that I don't think the charge should be murder. Why? The adrenaline response, which causes severe tunnel vision. Any vet who has been in a fire fight knows about this.

The appropriate charge in this case, imho, should be manslaughter. I suspect that SC is pushing state murder charges to avoid the riots that have happened in other places. I don't think the charge is justified.

Another thing to consider. If the prosecutor does not include all lesser charges, it's very likely this cop will be acquitted. I'm not a lawyer, but I just don't think they can prove murder here, because of the adrenaline response.

I hope that calm will prevail.

A friend of mine, a retired USAF SMSGt, who is also now clergy, and who at one time worked as a corrections officer, suggested that all beat cops should be COs first. Why? COs don't get guns. They have to learn how to control situations with their brains, their voice and if need be their body. I understand that the Los Angeles Sherrifs office requires all deputies to work two years as COs before becoming beat cops. If all departments through the country could do this, there would be far fewer gun incidents, because cops would know how to handle things.

Also, the "kinder-gentler" way of teaching cops, I think, has hurt them. In olden days cops rarely shot people because they knew, right or wrong, how to subdue suspects. These days, with ACLU lawsuits, cameras everywhere, etc., cops are afraid to take action until it's too late. That isn't the case in every shooting incident (cf Cincinnati where the rookie cop, who had been fired from another department, fired as soon as he exited the patrol car, even though there was no threat), but it is, I am sure, always in the cops' mind.

In general, I am opposed to prosecuting cops and soldiers, because the fear factor of being prosecuted for doing your duty can cause people to hesitate and get killed in action.

In cases where soldiers are already suffering PTSD when they commit crimes (Russell and Bales) they should not have been prosecuted for murder, since they were in no way in "their right mind". I think the attorneys in both cases failed in their duties, because the Army, as a rule, refuses to properly deal with PTSD, and these cases are the result...

1LT Sandy Annala
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Unsure of how this has anything to do with the military since this was a local police event, but I'll bite.

On a personal level, I think this looks really bad for the officer. I think the investigation needs to occur and go to trial. I personally believe he acted inappropriately purely based on the video and will probably go to jail for murder....but until he's proven guilty, he's innocent.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
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This post is listed under "general interest".
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SSG John Erny
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Edited 9 y ago
Let us look at our own profession, most service members serve with honorable distinction; but we have all seen or read about those who leave a stain on our uniforms. I am sure that all of you can come up with your own examples or those listed here on RP. The same is true for the law enforcement community; they too have bad actors that make them all look bad.

I think most of us have dealt with members of the law enforcement community that left a bad impression. They are taught to use a command voice and always be in charge of any situation or contact with the public. Sound familiar NCO's: Command voice, being in charge, taking control? I have heard the term C.O.P. used, or contempt of police. Think disrespect to a non commissioned officer, in the civilian world that is not a crime. Wrong in my opinion, but not a crime.

The government entity which employs LEO's is also to blame be it local, county, state, or federal. In some cases they are essentially the armed version of the revenue service. Fines help finance operating costs and wages or what ever else the money is used for. Then we have politicians who run the various law enforcement entities and they do not do a good job of policing their own. We in the military would call it good order and discipline.

The vast majority of people in law enforcement are fine and honorable people who serve us well. This bad actor will get his day in court and the Judge and Jury will decide his fate.
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SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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There are some officers that are not fit the job as an LEO. It really does not matter if it is PTSD or not because it is the public that pays the cost, one way or another.
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SSG Robert Burns
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Edited 9 y ago
What takes the cake is that later in the video you see him "planting" the tazer next to the guy while he was laying dead on the ground. I turns my stomach to think of what woulda happened had this not been on video.
Also he stated that he gave the guy CPR while waiting which is another lie as evident in the video. The only time he touches the guy is to cuff him.
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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As he lay there dead and telling to put his hands behind his back.
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SSG Tim Everett
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I'm going with "other" because I'm not going to armchair general law enforcement in general. I am, however, going to call this out as being an obvious case of murder, and I hope that the City of Charleston is prosecuting because it was the right thing to do, not because it wouldn't go over well to ignore it or sweep it under the rug.
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SMSgt Thomas V.
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This is a tragic incident! The charges however are wrong. The problem with these incidents is misinformation. Though the video is damning it is not the full story. The prosecutor in my opinion is acting improperly here as well however is justified with the hanious Video he has been presented and the emotional scene it presents. Law Enforcement encounters such as this are weighted against "legal precedent" not emotion. When the media hype mellows, investigators will look at the totality of the circumstances surrounding this incident. It will be properly be "Monday morning quarterbacked" by professionals. What the general public doesn't understand is law enforcement encounters are weighed against the 4th amendment as "seizures". Police officers do not kill people, they seize them. The question that will be asked and answered in the courtroom not the court of public opinion is "Was the officer justified in seizing this individual" undoubtedly the answer will be yes. The suspect was wanted on judge ordered warrant and the officer was bound by law to seize him and bring him to a judge. The video shows only part of the encounter, we are judging the actions using individual filters instead of applying SC and Federal Law. What you or I would do doesn't apply. The implication of racial overtones makes this incident even worst. The political correctness shown here by the prosecutor will only further damage race and law enforcement relations. As this case is examined more evidence will come to light. The "slam dunk" many think this is May not come to what many expect. These cases are wrongly displayed in the media where the "court of public opinion" is usually wrong and we all scratch our heads as to how anyone could see anything different than a "racist cop" killing an unarmed man. I am sad the man was fatally wounded as is the officer and everyone involved, but in the end I do not expect a charge of murder or homicide and either should anyone else and history proves that. The reason is steeped in state and federal law on seizure and if the officer is guilty of anything its violation of the individuals 4th amendment rights. When a good law enforcement lawyer defends this and the incident is taken to court "reasonable doubt" will be in all our minds. Shamefully it will be racially unacceptable and riots will occur further damaging the fabric of what makes our nation great. Be responsible and reserve judgement when all the facts are in, you are still presumed innocent until proven guilty in this country.
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SSG Training Developer
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SMSgt Thomas Vernon I have read Tennesse v Garner and how it held the fourth amendment in specific the rules of seizure. However you mention criminal intent which is a prerequisite to determine the commission of a crime or mens rea as the law refers to it. There is specific intent to impede an investigation and interfering with a crime scene. You do however make a great point even though i respectfully disagree with your premise that there is lack of mens rea to prove a criminal act of murder
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SSG Training Developer
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here below find the witness interview the man who saw it all and recorded it all
http://news.yahoo.com/scott-south-carolina-police-shooting-witness-erase-video-140923913.html
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SSG Dwight Amey MSA, MSL, BS, AS
SSG Dwight Amey MSA, MSL, BS, AS
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SMSgt Thomas Vernon, you present a good view from the other side of the media portrayed taken out of context. This reminds me of the mixing of water and oil. Should the media be covering the news from the perspective of the police or their customers? We need to educate our children how to deal with what trash the news entertainment they see. Take this discussion. We can have a exchange of ideas and learn from each other on socially charged issues.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
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SMSgt Thomas V. "Lord willing I will be here when this case has crawled through the legal system so I can see the outcome."
"Michael Slager pleads guilty in connection with killing of Walter Scott"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/michael-slager-plead-guilty-connection-killing-walter-scott/story?id=47154248

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-north-charleston-south-carolina-police-officer-michael-slager-sentenced-20-years

"U.S. District Judge David Norton ruled that Slager committed second-degree murder and obstruction of justice, when he shot and killed 50-year-old Scott in 2015. The second-degree murder ruling came with a recommended 19 to 24 year sentence."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/cop-michael-slager-faces-19-24-years-prison/story?id=51595376

And your position now that all which was accused proven to be true?

You felt the justification to down vote many in this thread ..to you still feel that was a fair and appropriate choice?

LTC Yinon Weiss
Capt Whitney Davis
SSG Christopher Adame
CSM Michael J. Uhlig
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LTC Chief Of Public Affairs And Protocol
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I am often accused of being extremely right wing. I disagree, of course. I try to be objective. In this case, I see a murder. I also see a "capital murder".

If I was this officer, I wouldnt be concerned about the jail time, I would be concerned about the death penalty. If the roles were reversed here, there would be a death penalty cry. This appears to be an execution.

For a tail light? Jeez.
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SFC Practical/Vocational Nursing
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Im all for arresting and prosecuting, and self defense when warranted but this is muder
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SSG Trevor S.
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I have a hard time believing the video. If it wasn't staged its horrendous. But it seems to me that everyone involved is too calm and too half speed for it to be real.
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LTC Yinon Weiss
LTC Yinon Weiss
9 y
Humanity's worst crimes are so horrendous, they are often unimaginable... unfortunately it doesn't stop them from being real.
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SSG Trevor S.
SSG Trevor S.
9 y
I understand what you are saying LTC Yinon Weiss, I also understand that this incident is all over the news this morning. I am truly horrified anyone would do something so callous and calm. I just have a hard time reconciling:
The victim was running very slow and almost appeared to be stage running until the shots went off. Even at 50 years old I would think a man who has just been tazered and is trying to escape would have shown more desperation in his actions. This could be part of the effects of the tazer, and maybe other factors we don’t know about.
The officer took his time to pull the weapon, maybe even button the holster, then fire. He didn’t look to make more than a cursory attempt to reach for the fleeing suspect. He also didn’t pursue the suspect. This may have been because of the stolen tazer, but it just looks like he is more concerned about a cool shooting stance than capturing the suspect. Almost as if it was an on stage rehearsal and following a script he wasn't used to yet.
Then the cameraman was extremely calm, and moved closer to the dangerous area while never breaking his voice into excitement. The cameraman also didn’t seem to take any instinctive ducks or try to find better cover. It seemed as if he was almost reading off a script he was so calm.
That by no means says the situation wasn't real. I could just be mystified that the situation could have taken place at all and I can’t comprehend people reacting to this situation in these peculiar ways.
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