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From: Army Times
If you want to go out in public on Fort Leonard Wood you better ditch the tank top, pull up your saggy drawers and shave that scruff.
Maj. Gen. Leslie Smith, the Missouri post's commanding general, issued new appearance standards in a Nov. 10 policy update.
The rules not only crack down on sloppy dress, but skimpy outfits as well: No short skirts, exposed midriffs and revealing undergarments.
The rules fall under the post's Command Policy 18, which used to be called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms." Now it's called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms and Civilian Attire," which really brings into focus the expansion of the policy to include not only soldiers in civilian clothes, but also spouses, kids, guests – anyone who comes on post.
"The entire concept is good order and discipline. The Army is talking about the Army profession, how we look, how we dress," Smith told Army Times in a Nov. 21 interview.
While the policy change has garnered plenty of buzz online, Smith downplayed the changes. He has been the posts' commanding general since June 2013, and said the base simply updated the regs after waiting for recent updates to AR 670-1, the Armywide regulation on appearance standards.
But Smith's policy does go further in some cases than AR 670-1. For example, the shaving rule. AR 670-1 requires soldiers to be "clean shaven" whenever they are in uniform or on duty. Fort Leonard Wood has called for soldiers to be clean-shaven, whether they are on duty or off. This is one of the few rules in the policy that do not extend to civilians on post.
"We've followed the lead on other bases and establishments," said Smith.
In recent years, bases such as Fort Irwin, California, and Fort Stewart, Georgia, have issued similar crackdowns.
Policy highlights for everyone on post at Fort Leonard Wood:
• No bare mid-drifts, shirts with cut-out armpits or sleeveless shirts, tank tops, swimsuits, or shorts/skirts/tops that "are too revealing."
• No sagging pants, pajamas or house shoes.
• No clothing depicting obscenity, slander, drug paraphernalia, or vulgarity.
More policy highlights for soldiers only:
• No headphones while wearing any Army uniform, including official PT uniforms, except for a hands-free device while driving. Soldiers can wear headphones, however, while walking or running on sidewalks, troop trails, running tracks or inside the gym in civilian clothing.
• Though not new, a draft poster depicting the changes reinforces that PT uniforms cannot be worn outside of unit personal training, transit to PT, and a few select locations such as the daycare center.
Officers bear responsibility for passing down the changes to soldiers under their command, and soldiers for informing families and guests, base spokeswoman Shatara Seymour said. Access control officers at the post's gates will have authority to prevent entrance to those not in compliance, and management of various facilities will also wield authority to ask people to leave.
Smith said certain facilities such as the PX and commissary could ask inappropriately dressed civilians or soldiers to leave, but said the gate guards would focus more on military personnel rather than denying non-compliant civilians access.
He said they will be looking hard at the off-duty shaving requirement, leaving open the possibility that there could be an adjustment to that rule.
As for enforcement, he said, "self-policing is the goal." The policy states, as it did before the changes, that soldiers all "have the general military authority to make corrections on service members improperly wearing the uniform, regardless of the rank or duty" of the non-compliant soldier.
After a draft of a poster spelling out Smith's policy leaked online, soldiers and vets responded with mixed reviews via social media.
"As a former NCO I agree with this 100%. When I was in this was not an issue, we looked squared away 24/7. It's sad that today soldiers have to be told how to look both on and off duty," Jack Hutchinson said via Facebook.
Others reserved their blunt remarks for civilian appearance.
"It's Leonard Wood which means it is constantly full of disgusting civilian family members watching their spawn graduate Basic Training. Good luck to the post CSM on actually enforcing this," said John Atkinson.
But comments also included pushback against rules viewed by some as superfluous.
"God forbid soldiers utilize music devices while improving their physical fitness," Scott Welch said.
"I am a retired NCO, and I think the shaving point is total BS," said Steve Buero. "I NEVER shaved on weekends or on leave. That is my time and if I was on duty in civilian clothes I shaved, but you call me in for some BS on my leave you got what you got."
Some complained that family members and friends visiting the base not employed by the Army should not be subjected to Army rules. But others say coming on the post comes with tacit agreement to abide by rules designed to promote the atmosphere desired by leadership.
"Hate to be the spoiler. But soldiers are and have always been responsible for the actions of the family members. It is the soldier's responsibility to ensure family members know what they can and cannot do," John DeSmith said.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2014/11/21/leonard-wood-dress-code/70017120/
If you want to go out in public on Fort Leonard Wood you better ditch the tank top, pull up your saggy drawers and shave that scruff.
Maj. Gen. Leslie Smith, the Missouri post's commanding general, issued new appearance standards in a Nov. 10 policy update.
The rules not only crack down on sloppy dress, but skimpy outfits as well: No short skirts, exposed midriffs and revealing undergarments.
The rules fall under the post's Command Policy 18, which used to be called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms." Now it's called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms and Civilian Attire," which really brings into focus the expansion of the policy to include not only soldiers in civilian clothes, but also spouses, kids, guests – anyone who comes on post.
"The entire concept is good order and discipline. The Army is talking about the Army profession, how we look, how we dress," Smith told Army Times in a Nov. 21 interview.
While the policy change has garnered plenty of buzz online, Smith downplayed the changes. He has been the posts' commanding general since June 2013, and said the base simply updated the regs after waiting for recent updates to AR 670-1, the Armywide regulation on appearance standards.
But Smith's policy does go further in some cases than AR 670-1. For example, the shaving rule. AR 670-1 requires soldiers to be "clean shaven" whenever they are in uniform or on duty. Fort Leonard Wood has called for soldiers to be clean-shaven, whether they are on duty or off. This is one of the few rules in the policy that do not extend to civilians on post.
"We've followed the lead on other bases and establishments," said Smith.
In recent years, bases such as Fort Irwin, California, and Fort Stewart, Georgia, have issued similar crackdowns.
Policy highlights for everyone on post at Fort Leonard Wood:
• No bare mid-drifts, shirts with cut-out armpits or sleeveless shirts, tank tops, swimsuits, or shorts/skirts/tops that "are too revealing."
• No sagging pants, pajamas or house shoes.
• No clothing depicting obscenity, slander, drug paraphernalia, or vulgarity.
More policy highlights for soldiers only:
• No headphones while wearing any Army uniform, including official PT uniforms, except for a hands-free device while driving. Soldiers can wear headphones, however, while walking or running on sidewalks, troop trails, running tracks or inside the gym in civilian clothing.
• Though not new, a draft poster depicting the changes reinforces that PT uniforms cannot be worn outside of unit personal training, transit to PT, and a few select locations such as the daycare center.
Officers bear responsibility for passing down the changes to soldiers under their command, and soldiers for informing families and guests, base spokeswoman Shatara Seymour said. Access control officers at the post's gates will have authority to prevent entrance to those not in compliance, and management of various facilities will also wield authority to ask people to leave.
Smith said certain facilities such as the PX and commissary could ask inappropriately dressed civilians or soldiers to leave, but said the gate guards would focus more on military personnel rather than denying non-compliant civilians access.
He said they will be looking hard at the off-duty shaving requirement, leaving open the possibility that there could be an adjustment to that rule.
As for enforcement, he said, "self-policing is the goal." The policy states, as it did before the changes, that soldiers all "have the general military authority to make corrections on service members improperly wearing the uniform, regardless of the rank or duty" of the non-compliant soldier.
After a draft of a poster spelling out Smith's policy leaked online, soldiers and vets responded with mixed reviews via social media.
"As a former NCO I agree with this 100%. When I was in this was not an issue, we looked squared away 24/7. It's sad that today soldiers have to be told how to look both on and off duty," Jack Hutchinson said via Facebook.
Others reserved their blunt remarks for civilian appearance.
"It's Leonard Wood which means it is constantly full of disgusting civilian family members watching their spawn graduate Basic Training. Good luck to the post CSM on actually enforcing this," said John Atkinson.
But comments also included pushback against rules viewed by some as superfluous.
"God forbid soldiers utilize music devices while improving their physical fitness," Scott Welch said.
"I am a retired NCO, and I think the shaving point is total BS," said Steve Buero. "I NEVER shaved on weekends or on leave. That is my time and if I was on duty in civilian clothes I shaved, but you call me in for some BS on my leave you got what you got."
Some complained that family members and friends visiting the base not employed by the Army should not be subjected to Army rules. But others say coming on the post comes with tacit agreement to abide by rules designed to promote the atmosphere desired by leadership.
"Hate to be the spoiler. But soldiers are and have always been responsible for the actions of the family members. It is the soldier's responsibility to ensure family members know what they can and cannot do," John DeSmith said.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2014/11/21/leonard-wood-dress-code/70017120/
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 112
I think this base is over reaching a little bit when it comes to spouses and chilren. But at the same time We joined the military and we knew they like to control things. The part i dont agree with is having to be shaven all the time that is just plain stupid.
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PO2 Corey Ferretti
That was why i had boot and A school having to shave all the time and not need too tore my face up
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PO2 Corey Ferretti
PFC Andrew Armstrong-Smith Can i ask why you down voted My post not upset just trying understand your point of view.
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I say that if there is rules and regulations- then they are there to be followed. Lets not bend anymore standards. Its the military- not a fashion club. Civillians- now that is a different story.. Wear whatever you want- but if you are going to wear it then you are not allowed on the post until you are wearing tasteful civillian attire.
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In my humble opinion, if we focus on professionalism many of these things will happen as a byproduct. The rest of it should be handled on a case-by-case basis.
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A regulation of this type needs to be specific, identifying the offending clothing in detail. When I was at Walter Reed awaiting on experimental treatment and going through the separation/retirement procedure for Leukemia, I was berated and verbally abused by a fellow Sgt. for my appearance which he determined to be "disgusting" and "unbecoming of an NCO". I was unshaven because I had asked the MD, a Captain if I could stop shaving, his response was "your on the leukemia ward, no one shaves up here." I was wearing an authorized Army PT uniform the same one I had done PT in countless times on Longstreet etc... at Ft. Bragg. The day prior they had told me I was to be medically retired because I would probably be dead in three years. I explained all this in detail to the other Sgt. while gripping his lapels, his back against the wall and his feet six to eight inches from the floor. I then posed a question, " What would they do to me if I were to kill you right now? Give me life in prison? I would be dead before it came to trial."
My point in this story is that if a reg is created that is open to interpretation it will be misused or abused or simply interpreted to suit the individuals views.
My point in this story is that if a reg is created that is open to interpretation it will be misused or abused or simply interpreted to suit the individuals views.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
First off if you were in Walter Reed the other SGT didn't have any right saying Jack shit to you about your appearance. Period.
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SSG (Join to see)
As NCOs we have to know tact. Lots of guys get no shaving profiles for one reason or another. Under no circumstance should that have happened to you SGT Kelly. PV2 Shaull, you need to understand who we represent. Regardless of where you are you must always do you best to maintain. Just because a Soldier is somewhere doesn't mean he or she is automatically exempt.
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SGT Bret Kelly
I couldn't agree more, excellent point. The reason for shaving profiles, psudofoliculitis.
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I am all for stopping the skimpy clothing and the saggy pants, but we should never make rules that we can't enforce. This is going to end up as another detail/duty that junior officers and NCO will have to pull instead of spending time with family and friends. The shaving is way overboard again too hard to enforce. If a Soldier has "shadow " will they be refused service at the PX?? Who is deciding the standard civilians that work at the PX? We need to look at this. Also leaders need to read the regulations on shaving profiles. Many allow their soldiers to walk around out of regs!
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SSG (Join to see)
Also, a lot of people think some of the rumored changes to the 670-1 this past year were actually implemented. I've had to point out that the reg does not require shaving while off duty to multiple people.
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Coming up! Acronyms will be codified. Any deviations will not be tolerated, on and off-duty and dreams as well. Good luck!!!
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I can definitely see both sides of the spectrum here, as long as no soldiers are getting into serious trouble because of family members then not much to worry about. I only say that because you can inform them of any policies but everyone has free will and will do as they please you cannot be expected to police spouse and children 24/7 along with working and being on call 24/7.
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Sounds reasonable and the ones who would complain the most are probably the ones who don't know how to dress properly.
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1SG Michael Blount
MSgt (Join to see) - that's like the people who complain about plumbers crack are the elephants trying making some real awful dressing decisions. yah, I was being a little politically correct there.
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Outstanding. See a lot of crap coming off of Bragg. Never thought they should have allowed beards in the first place
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