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From: Army Times
If you want to go out in public on Fort Leonard Wood you better ditch the tank top, pull up your saggy drawers and shave that scruff.
Maj. Gen. Leslie Smith, the Missouri post's commanding general, issued new appearance standards in a Nov. 10 policy update.
The rules not only crack down on sloppy dress, but skimpy outfits as well: No short skirts, exposed midriffs and revealing undergarments.
The rules fall under the post's Command Policy 18, which used to be called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms." Now it's called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms and Civilian Attire," which really brings into focus the expansion of the policy to include not only soldiers in civilian clothes, but also spouses, kids, guests – anyone who comes on post.
"The entire concept is good order and discipline. The Army is talking about the Army profession, how we look, how we dress," Smith told Army Times in a Nov. 21 interview.
While the policy change has garnered plenty of buzz online, Smith downplayed the changes. He has been the posts' commanding general since June 2013, and said the base simply updated the regs after waiting for recent updates to AR 670-1, the Armywide regulation on appearance standards.
But Smith's policy does go further in some cases than AR 670-1. For example, the shaving rule. AR 670-1 requires soldiers to be "clean shaven" whenever they are in uniform or on duty. Fort Leonard Wood has called for soldiers to be clean-shaven, whether they are on duty or off. This is one of the few rules in the policy that do not extend to civilians on post.
"We've followed the lead on other bases and establishments," said Smith.
In recent years, bases such as Fort Irwin, California, and Fort Stewart, Georgia, have issued similar crackdowns.
Policy highlights for everyone on post at Fort Leonard Wood:
• No bare mid-drifts, shirts with cut-out armpits or sleeveless shirts, tank tops, swimsuits, or shorts/skirts/tops that "are too revealing."
• No sagging pants, pajamas or house shoes.
• No clothing depicting obscenity, slander, drug paraphernalia, or vulgarity.
More policy highlights for soldiers only:
• No headphones while wearing any Army uniform, including official PT uniforms, except for a hands-free device while driving. Soldiers can wear headphones, however, while walking or running on sidewalks, troop trails, running tracks or inside the gym in civilian clothing.
• Though not new, a draft poster depicting the changes reinforces that PT uniforms cannot be worn outside of unit personal training, transit to PT, and a few select locations such as the daycare center.
Officers bear responsibility for passing down the changes to soldiers under their command, and soldiers for informing families and guests, base spokeswoman Shatara Seymour said. Access control officers at the post's gates will have authority to prevent entrance to those not in compliance, and management of various facilities will also wield authority to ask people to leave.
Smith said certain facilities such as the PX and commissary could ask inappropriately dressed civilians or soldiers to leave, but said the gate guards would focus more on military personnel rather than denying non-compliant civilians access.
He said they will be looking hard at the off-duty shaving requirement, leaving open the possibility that there could be an adjustment to that rule.
As for enforcement, he said, "self-policing is the goal." The policy states, as it did before the changes, that soldiers all "have the general military authority to make corrections on service members improperly wearing the uniform, regardless of the rank or duty" of the non-compliant soldier.
After a draft of a poster spelling out Smith's policy leaked online, soldiers and vets responded with mixed reviews via social media.
"As a former NCO I agree with this 100%. When I was in this was not an issue, we looked squared away 24/7. It's sad that today soldiers have to be told how to look both on and off duty," Jack Hutchinson said via Facebook.
Others reserved their blunt remarks for civilian appearance.
"It's Leonard Wood which means it is constantly full of disgusting civilian family members watching their spawn graduate Basic Training. Good luck to the post CSM on actually enforcing this," said John Atkinson.
But comments also included pushback against rules viewed by some as superfluous.
"God forbid soldiers utilize music devices while improving their physical fitness," Scott Welch said.
"I am a retired NCO, and I think the shaving point is total BS," said Steve Buero. "I NEVER shaved on weekends or on leave. That is my time and if I was on duty in civilian clothes I shaved, but you call me in for some BS on my leave you got what you got."
Some complained that family members and friends visiting the base not employed by the Army should not be subjected to Army rules. But others say coming on the post comes with tacit agreement to abide by rules designed to promote the atmosphere desired by leadership.
"Hate to be the spoiler. But soldiers are and have always been responsible for the actions of the family members. It is the soldier's responsibility to ensure family members know what they can and cannot do," John DeSmith said.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2014/11/21/leonard-wood-dress-code/70017120/
If you want to go out in public on Fort Leonard Wood you better ditch the tank top, pull up your saggy drawers and shave that scruff.
Maj. Gen. Leslie Smith, the Missouri post's commanding general, issued new appearance standards in a Nov. 10 policy update.
The rules not only crack down on sloppy dress, but skimpy outfits as well: No short skirts, exposed midriffs and revealing undergarments.
The rules fall under the post's Command Policy 18, which used to be called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms." Now it's called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms and Civilian Attire," which really brings into focus the expansion of the policy to include not only soldiers in civilian clothes, but also spouses, kids, guests – anyone who comes on post.
"The entire concept is good order and discipline. The Army is talking about the Army profession, how we look, how we dress," Smith told Army Times in a Nov. 21 interview.
While the policy change has garnered plenty of buzz online, Smith downplayed the changes. He has been the posts' commanding general since June 2013, and said the base simply updated the regs after waiting for recent updates to AR 670-1, the Armywide regulation on appearance standards.
But Smith's policy does go further in some cases than AR 670-1. For example, the shaving rule. AR 670-1 requires soldiers to be "clean shaven" whenever they are in uniform or on duty. Fort Leonard Wood has called for soldiers to be clean-shaven, whether they are on duty or off. This is one of the few rules in the policy that do not extend to civilians on post.
"We've followed the lead on other bases and establishments," said Smith.
In recent years, bases such as Fort Irwin, California, and Fort Stewart, Georgia, have issued similar crackdowns.
Policy highlights for everyone on post at Fort Leonard Wood:
• No bare mid-drifts, shirts with cut-out armpits or sleeveless shirts, tank tops, swimsuits, or shorts/skirts/tops that "are too revealing."
• No sagging pants, pajamas or house shoes.
• No clothing depicting obscenity, slander, drug paraphernalia, or vulgarity.
More policy highlights for soldiers only:
• No headphones while wearing any Army uniform, including official PT uniforms, except for a hands-free device while driving. Soldiers can wear headphones, however, while walking or running on sidewalks, troop trails, running tracks or inside the gym in civilian clothing.
• Though not new, a draft poster depicting the changes reinforces that PT uniforms cannot be worn outside of unit personal training, transit to PT, and a few select locations such as the daycare center.
Officers bear responsibility for passing down the changes to soldiers under their command, and soldiers for informing families and guests, base spokeswoman Shatara Seymour said. Access control officers at the post's gates will have authority to prevent entrance to those not in compliance, and management of various facilities will also wield authority to ask people to leave.
Smith said certain facilities such as the PX and commissary could ask inappropriately dressed civilians or soldiers to leave, but said the gate guards would focus more on military personnel rather than denying non-compliant civilians access.
He said they will be looking hard at the off-duty shaving requirement, leaving open the possibility that there could be an adjustment to that rule.
As for enforcement, he said, "self-policing is the goal." The policy states, as it did before the changes, that soldiers all "have the general military authority to make corrections on service members improperly wearing the uniform, regardless of the rank or duty" of the non-compliant soldier.
After a draft of a poster spelling out Smith's policy leaked online, soldiers and vets responded with mixed reviews via social media.
"As a former NCO I agree with this 100%. When I was in this was not an issue, we looked squared away 24/7. It's sad that today soldiers have to be told how to look both on and off duty," Jack Hutchinson said via Facebook.
Others reserved their blunt remarks for civilian appearance.
"It's Leonard Wood which means it is constantly full of disgusting civilian family members watching their spawn graduate Basic Training. Good luck to the post CSM on actually enforcing this," said John Atkinson.
But comments also included pushback against rules viewed by some as superfluous.
"God forbid soldiers utilize music devices while improving their physical fitness," Scott Welch said.
"I am a retired NCO, and I think the shaving point is total BS," said Steve Buero. "I NEVER shaved on weekends or on leave. That is my time and if I was on duty in civilian clothes I shaved, but you call me in for some BS on my leave you got what you got."
Some complained that family members and friends visiting the base not employed by the Army should not be subjected to Army rules. But others say coming on the post comes with tacit agreement to abide by rules designed to promote the atmosphere desired by leadership.
"Hate to be the spoiler. But soldiers are and have always been responsible for the actions of the family members. It is the soldier's responsibility to ensure family members know what they can and cannot do," John DeSmith said.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2014/11/21/leonard-wood-dress-code/70017120/
Army
Fort Leonard Wood
Army Regulations
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 112
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The fact people need to be told how to dress is more disturbing to me then anything. I mean, we have all had to run a quick errand after the gym or something, but I think people sometimes forget that even on a post they are in public.
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So...Here at Fort Polk, the OPFOR unit has "relaxed" grooming standards, and often, the mixed military/civilian attire is an "appropriate" uniform for them. I find myself cringing when I see this in the DFAC, PX, etc. It happens so often that I may not always conduct the on the spot corrections, because I'm not gonna carry around an alpha roster for that unit.
I agree with FLW efforts, however, there should be one standard in the military. So, bring this to all installations.
And please add that spouses don't need to wear APFU shirts & Jackets, Fleece, and the tan shirt. I just don't get that...
What I see all the time that is inappropriate (and against reg) is wearing the uniform off post - conducting the weekly shopping trip in ACUs. Almost every trip to Walmart will include this, and there is nothing like making an on the spot correction to a Soldier in front of his/her family and telling him/her to pack it up. It never leads to a good thing. Please leaders, inform your Soldiers of this. If they don't know, perhaps it's because you don't know. (I recently reminded a SFC of this standard.)
I agree with FLW efforts, however, there should be one standard in the military. So, bring this to all installations.
And please add that spouses don't need to wear APFU shirts & Jackets, Fleece, and the tan shirt. I just don't get that...
What I see all the time that is inappropriate (and against reg) is wearing the uniform off post - conducting the weekly shopping trip in ACUs. Almost every trip to Walmart will include this, and there is nothing like making an on the spot correction to a Soldier in front of his/her family and telling him/her to pack it up. It never leads to a good thing. Please leaders, inform your Soldiers of this. If they don't know, perhaps it's because you don't know. (I recently reminded a SFC of this standard.)
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Good point. Some times even as people rise up, they may be ignorant or forgotten the such rules and regulations. Like I have stated, there was time, when military personnel weren't allowed civilian clothing, and wore military uniforms all the time. So always watch what you ask for, or bitch about. Someone may hear you and may go more drastic on you.
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Trying to blend the civilian culture and warrior culture has always been a challenge. Establishing a dress code for off duty will definitely cause some heartache with our younger troops. This is a cultural thing more than anything else in my opinion. Over the past 16 years of my career I have seen the standards and discipline decline and soldiers and family members taking less pride in themselves. This includes how they dress, speak, and carry themselves. The only time I have seen both family members and soldiers carry themselves appropriately overall is while being stationed overseas.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
I hear SPC George Long, but when I was in the late 80's we had the weekend off to. With the exception for Basic/AIT when were 24/7 training. While I was on profile for broken leg, I didn't have many full weekend off, but I understood why. I would pull CQ and Battalion duty for the Platoon rotation when it came up on the more or less regular basis. Sometime when the Company had training I would get when it was for the others two Platoons to go to training. It wasn't no big deal, it was lot better than sitting up room staring at walls all day long, trying to read books that had memorize the first time I read them.
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SSG (Join to see)
TOP, while i agree with the decline in discipline, I believe that command should be more worried about discipline and standards where it begins, BASIC/AIT. Everything is totally centered around PC and feelings and empowering brand new Soldiers. When Soldiers are taking selfies and acting like fools inside the very institution that is supposed to mold and build well rounded Soldiers, then you have a generation that comes into the military that feels entitled, non obligated to follow the rules, and basically just worried about themselves. Basic training and AIT is meant to eliminate that CIVILIAN culture mindset and instill the Soldier character, and this seems to be declining as time goes on.
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1SG Eric Rice
SSG (Join to see) - SSG Hill, I have yet to read about the changes to Basic Training that begin 1 October but maybe they will address some of those issues. While basic is where a civilian is transformed into a soldier we cannot rely solely on the Drill Sergeants to instill all of the standards and discipline we look for in a soldier. We must continue to groom them for success through our daily interactions with them as well. Remember that only the foundation is laid in basic and it is up to us to continue building the rest.
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SSG (Join to see)
Totally agree TOP, my point was that basic is the first view into the military that is seen and experienced. So when that first look is full of playing around, facebook, selfies, no discipline, being buddies with senior leaders and so on, then it transfers right over into the RA.
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If I am reading this correctly, they are saying this also applies to non-enlisted civilians? Obviously it doesn't affect me but it does have me curious as to what leadership can and cannot authorize. I agree with all points made, sans personally not wanting to shave off duty but understand the reasoning. Rules are rules but I am curious if this does indeed apply to civilians.
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SFC(P) Tobias M.
Kyle,
This dose apply to civilians as to the skimpy clothing while on post. The last thing I want to see on post when my kids are with me is someone wearing a shirt with the F word on it or some one wearing something that belongs in a strip club. If you see this and you would not want your kids to see it then its not approiate to be worn outside of your own 4 walls.
This dose apply to civilians as to the skimpy clothing while on post. The last thing I want to see on post when my kids are with me is someone wearing a shirt with the F word on it or some one wearing something that belongs in a strip club. If you see this and you would not want your kids to see it then its not approiate to be worn outside of your own 4 walls.
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SSgt (Join to see)
I agree I was more wondering to the being clean shaven and things like house shoes. I know oddly, house shoes seem to be a common form of footwear with normal jeans and a button down, which I find odd. I agree with not wanting my child to ask me what (insert four letter word) means.
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• Though not new, a draft poster depicting the changes reinforces that PT uniforms cannot be worn outside of unit personal training, transit to PT, and a few select locations such as the daycare center.
Did I read this right? When you leave your home at 5 or so in the morning to go to PT, you can't wear your APFU? That sounds ridiculous. I also don't shave my facial hair when I am off, and if I am in my home or around my home doing work or relaxing inside and outside, I am not going to shave but Fort Bliss does not have a rule like that far as a I know. If my duty stations adopts the rules above I will enforce them but it will just mean I will spend less time on post in my free time to avoid the hassle.
Did I read this right? When you leave your home at 5 or so in the morning to go to PT, you can't wear your APFU? That sounds ridiculous. I also don't shave my facial hair when I am off, and if I am in my home or around my home doing work or relaxing inside and outside, I am not going to shave but Fort Bliss does not have a rule like that far as a I know. If my duty stations adopts the rules above I will enforce them but it will just mean I will spend less time on post in my free time to avoid the hassle.
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SFC William Swartz Jr
SSG (ret) William Martin the portion of the poster about transit to (and obviously from) PT allows for you to wear your APFU when leaving the house to head to and from your unit pt. It is more about the fact that you are not supposed to be conducting almost any type of personal business in said uniform outside of a quick stop to possibly gas up the POV or to purchase some sort of staple food item on the way home.
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Great move for Fort Leonard Wood, but this needs to be addressed at the DA level.
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Is there really anything better to do at FLW besides sport your favorite skimpy and tasteless clothing?
I can't imagine that requirements for civilian family members/ guests will not continuously draw negative attention. Bottom line is there are some people who will know the rules exist, plan to follow them and still dress "inappropriately" for the standards that Military Members are expected to follow. These are expectations that far outreach rules that any person other than a service member should be expected to follow. Who is to say what is inappropriate attire for civilians? Service members who have been expected to follow a uniform code? Most of which having many years in service. This seems outlandish and very far overreaching. Cannot wait to hear how the enforcement is coming along.
Requiring soldiers to be clean shaven on and off duty does not seem as far reaching considering most soldiers are only off duty for 24-48 hours at a time unless on leave. However it seems to be another regulation that is aimed at giving NCOs another chore and providing junior service members with more minuscule daily tasks, even when off duty at home. However being a TRADOC post with numerous brand new soldiers I suppose I understand the need for such a regulation.
I can't imagine that requirements for civilian family members/ guests will not continuously draw negative attention. Bottom line is there are some people who will know the rules exist, plan to follow them and still dress "inappropriately" for the standards that Military Members are expected to follow. These are expectations that far outreach rules that any person other than a service member should be expected to follow. Who is to say what is inappropriate attire for civilians? Service members who have been expected to follow a uniform code? Most of which having many years in service. This seems outlandish and very far overreaching. Cannot wait to hear how the enforcement is coming along.
Requiring soldiers to be clean shaven on and off duty does not seem as far reaching considering most soldiers are only off duty for 24-48 hours at a time unless on leave. However it seems to be another regulation that is aimed at giving NCOs another chore and providing junior service members with more minuscule daily tasks, even when off duty at home. However being a TRADOC post with numerous brand new soldiers I suppose I understand the need for such a regulation.
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SSG (ret) William Martin
I live off post. I normally don't come onto post in my free time unless its work related or if I am going to the movie theater or the commissary with my wife.
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I fully agree with crackdown.This is not the only post to do this and as stated Ft. Irwin which isn't that far from me has already done so.
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While all personnel are subject to regulations and policy of the post, civilians visiting I agree with regarding to the beards. But yes standards need to be enforced with the military, contractors, employees and dependents. When one sees a group not following the regulations and another does what does that identifies to the general public?
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