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From: Army Times
If you want to go out in public on Fort Leonard Wood you better ditch the tank top, pull up your saggy drawers and shave that scruff.
Maj. Gen. Leslie Smith, the Missouri post's commanding general, issued new appearance standards in a Nov. 10 policy update.
The rules not only crack down on sloppy dress, but skimpy outfits as well: No short skirts, exposed midriffs and revealing undergarments.
The rules fall under the post's Command Policy 18, which used to be called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms." Now it's called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms and Civilian Attire," which really brings into focus the expansion of the policy to include not only soldiers in civilian clothes, but also spouses, kids, guests – anyone who comes on post.
"The entire concept is good order and discipline. The Army is talking about the Army profession, how we look, how we dress," Smith told Army Times in a Nov. 21 interview.
While the policy change has garnered plenty of buzz online, Smith downplayed the changes. He has been the posts' commanding general since June 2013, and said the base simply updated the regs after waiting for recent updates to AR 670-1, the Armywide regulation on appearance standards.
But Smith's policy does go further in some cases than AR 670-1. For example, the shaving rule. AR 670-1 requires soldiers to be "clean shaven" whenever they are in uniform or on duty. Fort Leonard Wood has called for soldiers to be clean-shaven, whether they are on duty or off. This is one of the few rules in the policy that do not extend to civilians on post.
"We've followed the lead on other bases and establishments," said Smith.
In recent years, bases such as Fort Irwin, California, and Fort Stewart, Georgia, have issued similar crackdowns.
Policy highlights for everyone on post at Fort Leonard Wood:
• No bare mid-drifts, shirts with cut-out armpits or sleeveless shirts, tank tops, swimsuits, or shorts/skirts/tops that "are too revealing."
• No sagging pants, pajamas or house shoes.
• No clothing depicting obscenity, slander, drug paraphernalia, or vulgarity.
More policy highlights for soldiers only:
• No headphones while wearing any Army uniform, including official PT uniforms, except for a hands-free device while driving. Soldiers can wear headphones, however, while walking or running on sidewalks, troop trails, running tracks or inside the gym in civilian clothing.
• Though not new, a draft poster depicting the changes reinforces that PT uniforms cannot be worn outside of unit personal training, transit to PT, and a few select locations such as the daycare center.
Officers bear responsibility for passing down the changes to soldiers under their command, and soldiers for informing families and guests, base spokeswoman Shatara Seymour said. Access control officers at the post's gates will have authority to prevent entrance to those not in compliance, and management of various facilities will also wield authority to ask people to leave.
Smith said certain facilities such as the PX and commissary could ask inappropriately dressed civilians or soldiers to leave, but said the gate guards would focus more on military personnel rather than denying non-compliant civilians access.
He said they will be looking hard at the off-duty shaving requirement, leaving open the possibility that there could be an adjustment to that rule.
As for enforcement, he said, "self-policing is the goal." The policy states, as it did before the changes, that soldiers all "have the general military authority to make corrections on service members improperly wearing the uniform, regardless of the rank or duty" of the non-compliant soldier.
After a draft of a poster spelling out Smith's policy leaked online, soldiers and vets responded with mixed reviews via social media.
"As a former NCO I agree with this 100%. When I was in this was not an issue, we looked squared away 24/7. It's sad that today soldiers have to be told how to look both on and off duty," Jack Hutchinson said via Facebook.
Others reserved their blunt remarks for civilian appearance.
"It's Leonard Wood which means it is constantly full of disgusting civilian family members watching their spawn graduate Basic Training. Good luck to the post CSM on actually enforcing this," said John Atkinson.
But comments also included pushback against rules viewed by some as superfluous.
"God forbid soldiers utilize music devices while improving their physical fitness," Scott Welch said.
"I am a retired NCO, and I think the shaving point is total BS," said Steve Buero. "I NEVER shaved on weekends or on leave. That is my time and if I was on duty in civilian clothes I shaved, but you call me in for some BS on my leave you got what you got."
Some complained that family members and friends visiting the base not employed by the Army should not be subjected to Army rules. But others say coming on the post comes with tacit agreement to abide by rules designed to promote the atmosphere desired by leadership.
"Hate to be the spoiler. But soldiers are and have always been responsible for the actions of the family members. It is the soldier's responsibility to ensure family members know what they can and cannot do," John DeSmith said.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2014/11/21/leonard-wood-dress-code/70017120/
If you want to go out in public on Fort Leonard Wood you better ditch the tank top, pull up your saggy drawers and shave that scruff.
Maj. Gen. Leslie Smith, the Missouri post's commanding general, issued new appearance standards in a Nov. 10 policy update.
The rules not only crack down on sloppy dress, but skimpy outfits as well: No short skirts, exposed midriffs and revealing undergarments.
The rules fall under the post's Command Policy 18, which used to be called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms." Now it's called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms and Civilian Attire," which really brings into focus the expansion of the policy to include not only soldiers in civilian clothes, but also spouses, kids, guests – anyone who comes on post.
"The entire concept is good order and discipline. The Army is talking about the Army profession, how we look, how we dress," Smith told Army Times in a Nov. 21 interview.
While the policy change has garnered plenty of buzz online, Smith downplayed the changes. He has been the posts' commanding general since June 2013, and said the base simply updated the regs after waiting for recent updates to AR 670-1, the Armywide regulation on appearance standards.
But Smith's policy does go further in some cases than AR 670-1. For example, the shaving rule. AR 670-1 requires soldiers to be "clean shaven" whenever they are in uniform or on duty. Fort Leonard Wood has called for soldiers to be clean-shaven, whether they are on duty or off. This is one of the few rules in the policy that do not extend to civilians on post.
"We've followed the lead on other bases and establishments," said Smith.
In recent years, bases such as Fort Irwin, California, and Fort Stewart, Georgia, have issued similar crackdowns.
Policy highlights for everyone on post at Fort Leonard Wood:
• No bare mid-drifts, shirts with cut-out armpits or sleeveless shirts, tank tops, swimsuits, or shorts/skirts/tops that "are too revealing."
• No sagging pants, pajamas or house shoes.
• No clothing depicting obscenity, slander, drug paraphernalia, or vulgarity.
More policy highlights for soldiers only:
• No headphones while wearing any Army uniform, including official PT uniforms, except for a hands-free device while driving. Soldiers can wear headphones, however, while walking or running on sidewalks, troop trails, running tracks or inside the gym in civilian clothing.
• Though not new, a draft poster depicting the changes reinforces that PT uniforms cannot be worn outside of unit personal training, transit to PT, and a few select locations such as the daycare center.
Officers bear responsibility for passing down the changes to soldiers under their command, and soldiers for informing families and guests, base spokeswoman Shatara Seymour said. Access control officers at the post's gates will have authority to prevent entrance to those not in compliance, and management of various facilities will also wield authority to ask people to leave.
Smith said certain facilities such as the PX and commissary could ask inappropriately dressed civilians or soldiers to leave, but said the gate guards would focus more on military personnel rather than denying non-compliant civilians access.
He said they will be looking hard at the off-duty shaving requirement, leaving open the possibility that there could be an adjustment to that rule.
As for enforcement, he said, "self-policing is the goal." The policy states, as it did before the changes, that soldiers all "have the general military authority to make corrections on service members improperly wearing the uniform, regardless of the rank or duty" of the non-compliant soldier.
After a draft of a poster spelling out Smith's policy leaked online, soldiers and vets responded with mixed reviews via social media.
"As a former NCO I agree with this 100%. When I was in this was not an issue, we looked squared away 24/7. It's sad that today soldiers have to be told how to look both on and off duty," Jack Hutchinson said via Facebook.
Others reserved their blunt remarks for civilian appearance.
"It's Leonard Wood which means it is constantly full of disgusting civilian family members watching their spawn graduate Basic Training. Good luck to the post CSM on actually enforcing this," said John Atkinson.
But comments also included pushback against rules viewed by some as superfluous.
"God forbid soldiers utilize music devices while improving their physical fitness," Scott Welch said.
"I am a retired NCO, and I think the shaving point is total BS," said Steve Buero. "I NEVER shaved on weekends or on leave. That is my time and if I was on duty in civilian clothes I shaved, but you call me in for some BS on my leave you got what you got."
Some complained that family members and friends visiting the base not employed by the Army should not be subjected to Army rules. But others say coming on the post comes with tacit agreement to abide by rules designed to promote the atmosphere desired by leadership.
"Hate to be the spoiler. But soldiers are and have always been responsible for the actions of the family members. It is the soldier's responsibility to ensure family members know what they can and cannot do," John DeSmith said.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2014/11/21/leonard-wood-dress-code/70017120/
Army
Fort Leonard Wood
Army Regulations
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 112
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SFC (Join to see)
These aren't new changes. Most installations have had these policies in place for a longer time then most of have served. The problem is we have created an Army that our Soldiers, seniors and juniors alike, think they can do what ever they want. We have forgotten some where along the way that all Soldiers and dependants follow a set of rules completly different from the civilian sector. Juniors are going to push the limits as far as they can until a leader tells them no. It most cases these kids don't even know that these rules exist. It is our leaderships responsibility to enforce and follow these rules. I have seen in a lot of cases, that seniors are scared to say anything. I hear it all the time, "look at that wife and what she is wearing" or "look at that Soldier, looks like he doesn't even care about the regs." They never actually say anything. I tell people all the time they are messed up and I would hope I would get the same respect back when I am messed up. It's not hard people, do the right thing even when no one is watching.
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SFC James Wilson
You have no clue as to how a slave was treated. And if you (or anyone) doesn’t like how you are treated in the military, then get out and find something better...bottom line! The United States Army IS NOT Walmart.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Uhm. SPC A.J. Simm, you sign a contract saying you are Uncle Sams Slave. Suck it up, Buttercup. Yes, over the last 11 years the ranks have been too fluid, not enough continuity so things get forgotten. Now people are relearning what was forgotten with all the deployments. If you don't like it as SFC Wilson told you, get out at the end of you enlistment, don't re-enlist.
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I agree with this 100%. Military personnel are held to a higher standard than civilians. Also, if you are a guest on base/post, you should abide by their rules. I don't think it would be hard to enforce the rule for guests of basic training graduates. Regulations can be explained on the invitations so everyone is informed ahead of time. Kudos to this General for setting an example. I wouldn't be surprised if other installations followed suit.
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1SG Nick Baker
Since the CW05 retired, that mean the rest asked to join the military. You wanted to be a professional (insert branch).
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I say it's about time that all SM realized you need to look professional 24/7 I was stationed with a kid from Milwaukee who was always sagging in and out of uniform. My only confusion is about this regulation affecting not only service members but civilians military spouses. Does any SM even a post general have not only the right put the responsibility to enforce military regs on civilians or does that over reach his zone of control. As someone new to military and post life I was aware that civilians on post could be forced to comply with post specific regs
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LTC Dr Richard Wasserman
I would guess it would matter if they were family members or just guests and where they were on post. I would think that each base would have their own set of rules. But, I would also think that folks would have better things to do than go looking for these things.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Honestly many have dress code for dependents, but over the years haven't been enforced as well. Shrug, it what happens when everyone get tunnel vision on mission down the pipeline and fail to see what happening around them.
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Good. I'm tired of seeing improper dress. Whatever happened to dressing for your body type? And leaving something for the curiosity? People show too much, and a lot of them really don't need to be showing all that, for real.
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SGT Dana Williams
10-4! You have to leave something to the imagination, That depend on the situation though. When in the rear in VN, it was usually a chopped up set of cutoffs and flip flops.
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SGT Felicia King
I think the saying went 'to leave something to the imagination'. That actually makes a little more sense.
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When I and my boyfriend were stationed at Ft Huachucha, he was in the B-Troop unit. He was then sent to Korea, but he came back from Korea on leave to visit at his 6 month point there. While he was visiting me at Ft Huchucha, the B-Troop found out he was back on leave just in time for Gen. Leffler's retirement ceremony. Keith hadn't shaved in 3 weeks or so by that time and had a full beard going on. Since B-Troop was all volunteer and since they allowed retirees, civilian spouses, and other civilian base employees, beards were allowed. Keith as active duty, but on leave rode in the ceremony with his beard. Banning Sleeveless anything don't make any sense for women as there are so many summer clothes (ie sun dresses) that are perfectly suitable clothing except for the lack of a sleeve. That is one portion of the policy where I could see it being trouble. Especially since it applies to ALL (meaning kids as well). Apparently you can't put a cute sleeveless sun dress on your daughter? Or a wife who works in an office can't wear something like this shirt in the photo? It's perfectly acceptable in the work place in many offices, yet according to the "dress code" you can't leave your house with it on or come home from work with it on. I'm ok with a few points on there, (Ie saggy pants, Pajamas, etc) but I think the sleeveless part is a bit too aggressive and lacks thought.
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I agree with the change that highlights civilian attire. Some soldiers fail to realize that they are in a professional community and still dress as if they were "back on the block." You are a solider 24/7. I believe this policy should be enforced here at JBLM.
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SGT Glenn E Moody
yes i agree i have been out since 1987 and a member of my Div. veterans Association the 26th infantry Div. Boston chapter when representing i am clean shaven and hair cut to reg. to this day. i was only in the guard but we had to dress to reg. fresh shave hair cut clean & pressed uniform when reporting in for Duty or get an unsat. now my uniform is clean pressed & squared away weather my BDU'S my modified class - A's so not to look like i am still active Duty or mostly the Association uniform and do not put anything not earned on my uniform's like rank badges ribbon's ect.
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Definitely overboard with the shaving and skimpy clothes rule! My wife pays good money for her skimpy clothes and I like to see her wear them!
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SSG Gene Carroll SR.
Amen, What did the ladies where you when on R&R we men need to see our ladies looking good, that's what terns heads and makes life worth liveing.
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Just about any job worth having is going to expect you to conduct yourself professionally both on and off duty. Like it or not, the way we look does reflect on the organizations we are a part of- our jobs, our clubs, our teams. People are judgmental. As soldiers, there are a lot more people watching us and holding us to an even higher standard. I definitely get where this policy is coming from, though I disagree with it. Everyone has a different idea of what is appropriate and not so if "self-policing is the goal", why bother?! I also fail to see what's wrong with a little weekend scruff. Is micro-managing soldiers' appearances really going to make this a better fighting force? This has the most impact on our young soldiers who don't always have the option of staying away from post on weekends to avoid shaving and silly gym attire restrictions.
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