Posted on Mar 31, 2024
As a prior-service AF who is in the process of enlisting into NG SF, must I first go 11B into a traditional infantry unit?
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So, my recruiter claims they want me to enlist as an 11B into a NC Guard infantry unit with a memo showing an offer to attend SFAS. Does this seem legit? Or like a bait and switch? I’m considering pushing for a slot directly into the 20th Support with the memo instead, but getting some pushback on it. As prior-service, I’m naturally hesitant to trust the recruiter, but I don’t really have any SF guys I can reach out to for advice. Again, thanks so much for taking any time to answer me.
Special Forces
North Carolina ARNG
18D: Special Forces Medical Sergeant
Posted 9 mo ago
Responses: 4
Short answer - Yes it is possible that it is legit.
There are a couple of pathways to become a SF Soldier in the National Guard as a Prior Service candidate*. If the NCARNG is only following the "18X candidate" route, then that is through the traditional 11B pathway, attending to Airborne training, a Special Forces prep course and the finally going through SFAC SFAC for assessment and selection.
The other route for Prior Service depends on 'what you bring to the table' because "Prior Service" is a bit 'wonky' when it comes to Special Forces.
- If your not prior service with the Army, Marines, Navy SPECOPS or Air Force SPECOPS/Security Force, then you'll go through BCT as a fresh recruit.
- If you don't already have an Army MOS, then you'll go through AIT.
- After that, then the National Guard weeds individuals out with a Special Forces Readiness Evaluation/Assessment Drill (SFRE/SFAD). In essence, a NG SF unit "try-out".
- If you make it through that step, then you go to the traditional Special Forces Assessment and Selection (SFAS) program, after which you'll attend Airborne school and (if your come in as an E-4/E-5 which depends on rank determination) then the Warrior Leader Course/Common Leadership Training (WLC/CLT).
- After all that, then you'll go to the Q course (SFQC - SF Qualification Course).
Frankly, it's going to depend on the state.
Are you working with a general National Guard recruiter or are you working with a Special Forces National Guard recruiter? There is a difference.
One option you could do is the "Try One" contract* if you are working with a SF recruiter
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* https://sfnationalguard.com/civilian-to-special-forces-national-guard/
* https://www.nationalguard.com/special-forces-prior-service-applicants
* https://sfnationalguard.com/prior-service-to-green-beret/
There are a couple of pathways to become a SF Soldier in the National Guard as a Prior Service candidate*. If the NCARNG is only following the "18X candidate" route, then that is through the traditional 11B pathway, attending to Airborne training, a Special Forces prep course and the finally going through SFAC SFAC for assessment and selection.
The other route for Prior Service depends on 'what you bring to the table' because "Prior Service" is a bit 'wonky' when it comes to Special Forces.
- If your not prior service with the Army, Marines, Navy SPECOPS or Air Force SPECOPS/Security Force, then you'll go through BCT as a fresh recruit.
- If you don't already have an Army MOS, then you'll go through AIT.
- After that, then the National Guard weeds individuals out with a Special Forces Readiness Evaluation/Assessment Drill (SFRE/SFAD). In essence, a NG SF unit "try-out".
- If you make it through that step, then you go to the traditional Special Forces Assessment and Selection (SFAS) program, after which you'll attend Airborne school and (if your come in as an E-4/E-5 which depends on rank determination) then the Warrior Leader Course/Common Leadership Training (WLC/CLT).
- After all that, then you'll go to the Q course (SFQC - SF Qualification Course).
Frankly, it's going to depend on the state.
Are you working with a general National Guard recruiter or are you working with a Special Forces National Guard recruiter? There is a difference.
One option you could do is the "Try One" contract* if you are working with a SF recruiter
---------------------------------------------------
* https://sfnationalguard.com/civilian-to-special-forces-national-guard/
* https://www.nationalguard.com/special-forces-prior-service-applicants
* https://sfnationalguard.com/prior-service-to-green-beret/
How to Become a Green Beret in the NG
Civilians who want to become a Green Beret in the National Guard should sign an 18X contract, which guarantees the candidate a shot at Special Forces training.
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COL Randall C.
CPT Lawrence Cable - Absent of any other consideration, you're right - get the most possible. However, when resource constraints start to factor in there are many programs that get in place to improve the odds of success.
One Readiness NCO from the 3/20th SFG* in Florida said that the reason it's done for civilians is that there are a lot of resources that go into pushing someone through the SF pipeline and the 18X contracts are limited, so they only offer them to competitive candidates.
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* https://www.reddit.com/user/Tco320/
One Readiness NCO from the 3/20th SFG* in Florida said that the reason it's done for civilians is that there are a lot of resources that go into pushing someone through the SF pipeline and the 18X contracts are limited, so they only offer them to competitive candidates.
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* https://www.reddit.com/user/Tco320/
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CPT Lawrence Cable
COL Randall C. - Interesting. Took some time and read through a bit of that thread. If I read correctly, the Civilians are brought in as "guest" to see if they were really interested, basically a test drive without committing. The real pathway still requires enlisting 18X or any other Army MOS to apply for Selection.
I knew that the SF had been taking some Flack over falling pass rates at Selection. although I would have to point out that adding an extra week didn't help that problem. The running joke used to be that 18X was the best recruiting tool for the Airborne they had found. I wonder how much SFRE has increased pass rates/
I knew that the SF had been taking some Flack over falling pass rates at Selection. although I would have to point out that adding an extra week didn't help that problem. The running joke used to be that 18X was the best recruiting tool for the Airborne they had found. I wonder how much SFRE has increased pass rates/
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COL Randall C.
CPT Lawrence Cable - I came a chart that spoke to the impact of SFRE when I was looking at the 18X program.
In a chart from mid-November 2021 (SFAS class 02-22), it showed non-18X NG service members having a 60.71% selection rate at SFAS. However, I didn't come across any supplemental information, so take that number as one example of a point in time instead of a pattern.
"The group with the highest selection rate was non-18X National Guard enlisted candidates. Although this data differs from what we have analyzed previously, it would make sense that candidates who have already passed their state’s Special Forces Readiness Evaluation (SFRE) would fare better at selection. Passing SFRE means a candidate was vetted by his state to meet the physical standards and has been pushed mentally and physically through the state’s selection course."*
Since all NG servicemembers going SF need to go through the SFRE (not just the future 18X candidates) and you can think of it as the unit requiring you to pass a ACFT prior to being sent to a TRADOC school (at a much larger scale, but same concept), it does makes sense that the rates would be higher, especially for service members who have "been around the block a bit" (i.e., non-18X candidates), but again - take it with a grain of salt.
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* https://sfnationalguard.com/sfas-selection-rate-statistics-2021/
In a chart from mid-November 2021 (SFAS class 02-22), it showed non-18X NG service members having a 60.71% selection rate at SFAS. However, I didn't come across any supplemental information, so take that number as one example of a point in time instead of a pattern.
"The group with the highest selection rate was non-18X National Guard enlisted candidates. Although this data differs from what we have analyzed previously, it would make sense that candidates who have already passed their state’s Special Forces Readiness Evaluation (SFRE) would fare better at selection. Passing SFRE means a candidate was vetted by his state to meet the physical standards and has been pushed mentally and physically through the state’s selection course."*
Since all NG servicemembers going SF need to go through the SFRE (not just the future 18X candidates) and you can think of it as the unit requiring you to pass a ACFT prior to being sent to a TRADOC school (at a much larger scale, but same concept), it does makes sense that the rates would be higher, especially for service members who have "been around the block a bit" (i.e., non-18X candidates), but again - take it with a grain of salt.
----------------------------------------
* https://sfnationalguard.com/sfas-selection-rate-statistics-2021/
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CPT Lawrence Cable
COL Randall C. - I understand the reasoning for Service Members, the civilian part puzzles me unless they do a light version for those interested in enlisting 18X. Don't know which program pre-dates the other, but NGWTC's Ranger Training and Assessment Course increased the pass rate for Guard soldiers attending close to that of the guys coming out of the 75th. Logical, since if you can't hack RTAC or SFRE, you won't pass Selection or get past RPA week.
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There are two ways of going SF (that I'm aware of).
1) Enlist as 18X. But, if you fail the course then you are Needs of the Army.
2) Enlist with any MOS then apply for, and pass, Selection and Assessment.
However, I would just say to locate the nearest North Carolina National Guard SF unit and ask them what the best path would be.
Here are the two I found for North Carolina:
Company B, 3rd Battalion, 20th SFGA
Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina
[login to see]
Company B, 1st Battalion, 20th SFG(A)
Albemarle, North Carolina
[login to see]
1) Enlist as 18X. But, if you fail the course then you are Needs of the Army.
2) Enlist with any MOS then apply for, and pass, Selection and Assessment.
However, I would just say to locate the nearest North Carolina National Guard SF unit and ask them what the best path would be.
Here are the two I found for North Carolina:
Company B, 3rd Battalion, 20th SFGA
Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina
[login to see]
Company B, 1st Battalion, 20th SFG(A)
Albemarle, North Carolina
[login to see]
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Sgt Ben Brewer
Thank you for this, I reached out to them and was referred back to the NC Guard recruiter who gave me the info regarding 11B in a traditional Guard Infantry unit. However, I was lead to believe that I could enlist directly into the 20th with a guaranteed SFAS slot and if I Failed, just return to the 20th as a support member/get a second chanc at SFAS.
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COL Randall C.
Sgt Ben Brewer - I know you can enlist directly to be a SF Support member (you'd do BCT/AIT, Airborne and the SF Basic Combat course for Support - SFBCC-S) and could try for the SFAS slot in the future, but the support roles are just that - Medical, Intel, Logistics, etc. There aren't many 11Bs in the support roles.
What you stated in the second sentence sounds like a mixture of the Try One contract and the 18X contract.
As you stated, are not eligible for the Try One contract, but it states that "By the end of the 1 year enlistment contract, if you failed to meet the SFRE requirements, attend SFAS, aren’t selected at SFAS, or quit, you can either end your contract or extend, serving an additional contract in the SF Support or another unit."
As an 18X, if you don't get selected in SFAS to go to SFQC, then you may be afforded an opportunity to attend SFAS a second time (not your choice though - the state's choice).
I would ask the recruiter point blank to ensure that is an option (the "led to believe" is a bit nebulous). If it is, great - best of both worlds, however I'm skeptical if for no other reason than I don't see the SF Support roles being used as "holding places" for SF candidates who weren't selected.
What you stated in the second sentence sounds like a mixture of the Try One contract and the 18X contract.
As you stated, are not eligible for the Try One contract, but it states that "By the end of the 1 year enlistment contract, if you failed to meet the SFRE requirements, attend SFAS, aren’t selected at SFAS, or quit, you can either end your contract or extend, serving an additional contract in the SF Support or another unit."
As an 18X, if you don't get selected in SFAS to go to SFQC, then you may be afforded an opportunity to attend SFAS a second time (not your choice though - the state's choice).
I would ask the recruiter point blank to ensure that is an option (the "led to believe" is a bit nebulous). If it is, great - best of both worlds, however I'm skeptical if for no other reason than I don't see the SF Support roles being used as "holding places" for SF candidates who weren't selected.
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The problem is that 18X is for non-prior service only.
Since you are prior service, and since you can only go to SFAS/SFQC if you already have an Army MOS, then your recruiter is telling you the truth. The only way you can get that 11B MOS training seat is to contract for an 11B position. That letter helps, but you will need to have an Army MOS, and then you will need to pass a SFRE with 19th or 20th before they can attach you and send you to SFAS.
Since you are prior service, and since you can only go to SFAS/SFQC if you already have an Army MOS, then your recruiter is telling you the truth. The only way you can get that 11B MOS training seat is to contract for an 11B position. That letter helps, but you will need to have an Army MOS, and then you will need to pass a SFRE with 19th or 20th before they can attach you and send you to SFAS.
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