Posted on May 19, 2015
PT Grading standards relaxed for senior ranking NCOs (Is rank a factor?)
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So from what i have been hearing lately is about a double-standard when it comes to grading the APFT. (Both use same grader) For Ex. One Soldier is an E-2, falling into the 17-21 age group. Clearly exceeds the required number of push ups, sit ups and the 2 mile run. Finished with a 43 push up score. Now we have an E9, form isnt horrible but still bad enough to have a req not count every now and then. Final push up score was 83. Keep in mind that they were using the same grader, an E6. Now how can those scores vary so much? Does Rank play a factor in the overal score of a PT test?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
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All I can say is rank should not play a factor cause there is only one standard and that is the Army Standard!
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SFC (Join to see)
What SFC Loveless said. The standard is spelled out in black and white in FM 7-22. If there is a grader that is not fulfilling the requirements, that person needs remedial training.
Some people are intimidated by rank. It is sometimes hard to overlook rank or position, but it is something we will all face if we are in the military long enough.
Some people are intimidated by rank. It is sometimes hard to overlook rank or position, but it is something we will all face if we are in the military long enough.
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After 10, he should've been stopped if his reps were that bad. Furthermore, a grader answers to an APFT NCOIC and OIC. Between them and the CoC, I'd suggest asking the APFT Chain if the APFT could be diagnostic and requesting another record APFT and requesting a Leader you trust to be present. The Soldier should also check DTMS and his/her ERB to see whether the APFT was uploaded. Tact and demonstration of your reps will be needed.
Also, I've seen a Marine Sgt fail Push-ups during Airborne simply because there weren't enough slots, supposedly. I've seen seniors attain perfect scores with half reps. Maybe the SSG didn't have enough, err, in him to tell the SNCO to correct his form.
Rant Complete.
Also, I've seen a Marine Sgt fail Push-ups during Airborne simply because there weren't enough slots, supposedly. I've seen seniors attain perfect scores with half reps. Maybe the SSG didn't have enough, err, in him to tell the SNCO to correct his form.
Rant Complete.
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Do you have irrefutible proof that the person grading the APFT used a double standard? You can do a 100 push ups but if only 43 of them are correct form then you only get counted for 43, sorry but thats how the cookie crumbles.
Now if that was the case where the E2 pushed hard for 2 minutes and only came up with 43 then the grader should have been telling that Soldier what they were doing wrong, example being not going low enough, not breaking the plane..etc
Otherwise if your calling that E6's integrity into question then you better have some hard core proof and if you do...take it up the chain.
Now if that was the case where the E2 pushed hard for 2 minutes and only came up with 43 then the grader should have been telling that Soldier what they were doing wrong, example being not going low enough, not breaking the plane..etc
Otherwise if your calling that E6's integrity into question then you better have some hard core proof and if you do...take it up the chain.
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SSG (Join to see)
Roger SFC, it was just an example because i have been hearing about it a lot lately.
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SFC (Join to see)
When I was in, I never graded anyone differently wether it was an E1 or my BC. Standard is the Standard. You will "hear" a lot of things but my advice is verify verify verify....rumor's are a cancer!
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I have never agreed with leaders not taking the APFT before their Soldiers. It was common practice when I was a young PL for the 1SG to take all the PSGs out to the PT course the day prior to the unit APFT to grade them. I don't know if any impropriety ever occurred but I voiced my concerns each and every time that it happened. Leaders should not expect any privileges for being a leader.
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SPC (Join to see)
Sir, maybe it varies from unit to unit because the one I'm in currently I have never tested with a NCO or officer.
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LTC (Join to see)
Unless a senior NCO or Officer is overdue for a PT Test it should always be taken with the unit in my opinion.
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SFC (Join to see)
In my unit the AGRs (full timers in a guard unit) take the PT test on a different date. I've never agreed with this. APFT test should be transparent for all.
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If PT scores are really important in determining if a person can do their job there should only be one standard no matter who is taking the test. Age or sex should not matter.
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I can only reply that my lowest scores have always come from the tests administered by NCOES Cadre who have a very strict adherence to the standard.
I think that the pressure to approach 100% APFT passing in a unit translates as implicit pressure to let minor deficiencies in form slide. How many times have we seen that soldier struggle to get that last rep in at 1:59:30 with shouts of "come on..push it out" and "don't you dare quit!" Somehow they make it enough to lock their arms before time expires. They did not maintain the "generally straight line..." by any means, but this last effort (or efforts) is, more often then not, counted in unit-administered APFTs.
I think that the pressure to approach 100% APFT passing in a unit translates as implicit pressure to let minor deficiencies in form slide. How many times have we seen that soldier struggle to get that last rep in at 1:59:30 with shouts of "come on..push it out" and "don't you dare quit!" Somehow they make it enough to lock their arms before time expires. They did not maintain the "generally straight line..." by any means, but this last effort (or efforts) is, more often then not, counted in unit-administered APFTs.
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Its not that the standards are relaxed for senior NCOs. Its that some graders don't have any backbone or integrity.
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SSG (Join to see)
More details are needed.
Do you mean score or number of reps?
43 push ups is 61 points for a 17-21 y/o, 63 for someone 22-26, 69 for 27-41, 86 for 52-56, and 92 for 62+ years old. 43 push ups are over 100% for females at 17-21.
Age changes the value in points for Soldiers in each event, as does gender, rank does not.
More details are needed.
Do you mean score or number of reps?
43 push ups is 61 points for a 17-21 y/o, 63 for someone 22-26, 69 for 27-41, 86 for 52-56, and 92 for 62+ years old. 43 push ups are over 100% for females at 17-21.
Age changes the value in points for Soldiers in each event, as does gender, rank does not.
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WO1 (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see)
For doing the same reps Soldiers of different ages get different scores.
Like in the example above, doing 43 push ups at my age of 28 earns me 69 points, a 18 year old E2 gets 61, and a 62 y/o gets 92.
Now if the E2 does 60 push ups and the E6 only counts 43, and the E9 does 60 push ups comparable to the E2's and gets all 60 counted, that is wrong.
For doing the same reps Soldiers of different ages get different scores.
Like in the example above, doing 43 push ups at my age of 28 earns me 69 points, a 18 year old E2 gets 61, and a 62 y/o gets 92.
Now if the E2 does 60 push ups and the E6 only counts 43, and the E9 does 60 push ups comparable to the E2's and gets all 60 counted, that is wrong.
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