Posted on Jun 8, 2015
COL Signals Intelligence/Electronic Warfare
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California Policeman beats black woman nearly to death. Statistics show that the majority of police that commit violent crimes against American citizens are prior military. Why? Is it Post Traumatic Stress Disorder or simply hate. The U.S. Federal government is investigating. The American government and press attributed recent violence in Furguson and Baltimore to police brutality. Six police officers were subsequently arrested in Baltimore. PTSD(Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) or simply hate??? Key result, police were arrested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ke6z9a5QOQ
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SSG (ret) William Martin
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When I leave the military, I don't plan to do LE or even anything associated with security. The problem with screening veterans is one, it might be discrimination, and two, it will cost someone some money and who will pay for that, the department the vet is trying to get hired onto? Personally, if a potential employer asked if I have been diagnosed with PTSD I will make sure to file a complaint with EO.
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SSG Todd Lysfjord
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I did 10 years and 6 deployments before getting out. I was hired as a cop in Phoenix after being out for only two months. I met alot of people in my agency who were getting help for PTS from various (recent) prior military service.

None of us had any issues with the public or our peers attributable to our diagnosed combat related PTS. We were all seeking treatment from what was the worst VA on the planet at the time!

I have to think some of these recent issues with LE and the minority public probably stemmed from something else. It streamlines the story for the press and lessens the liability of the LE agency related to the incident if they scream "PTSD" from the rooftops.

In my eight years as a cop I had no issue and neither did any of my peers...
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COL Signals Intelligence/Electronic Warfare
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In my 15 years as a State of Florida Private investigator, and associated number of years as a Hampton City Virginia Special Police Officer and Private Investigator, I heard only rumors of VA misconduct reference the issue.
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CNN’s Brooke Baldwin Blames Vets Becoming Cops for Police Violence; ‘They come home Ready to Do Battle’
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/cnn-s-brooke-baldwin-blames-veterans-becoming-cops-police-brutality-they-re-ready-battle
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CDR Director, U.S. Navy Police
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One can make statistics show what one wants...

Statistics show that the majority of police that commit violent crimes against American citizens are prior military? Hmm, maybe that's because the majority of POLICE OFFICERS are former military.
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COL Signals Intelligence/Electronic Warfare
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Apparently that appears to be the truth for most states. Not only are most police prior military, it is further alleged that a great portion of the police force in some states are military reservist.
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PTSD and Military veterans that join the police force. Should pre-employment screening for PTSD be a requirement?
SSG Adam Wyatt
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Is this a serious question with videos that relate to what exactly? Violence comes in all colors sir. Good day.
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SSG Adam Wyatt
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"California Policeman beats black woman nearly to death". Your words. Not mine sir.
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SPC Mike Losser
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3 of the 6 officers were black? so your point of this post really is just bait. Drop the. "all cops are racists."
Arrested 1000's for minor to major crimes over 20 years. Only thing that sticks out about race is it was commonly used as an excuse for why they were being arrested vs the crime or violation they were being detained or arrested for committing.
service connected PTSD in-case you are wondering.
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Ahhhhhhhhh I see. The title of the video on youtube is "California Police Officer Beats Black homeless woman" thus my opening statement. Right. I will review the video again to determine if that statement is correct.
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MAJ Ron Peery
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Most agencies require applicants to take a psych evaluation as part of the hiring process.

Anyone can get PTSD, from any cause....car wreck, dog bite, falling off the roof of your house, being a cop in certain jurisdictions. It's not exclusive to combat veterans.

Since I don't know what has gone on in the lives of the LEO's involved, I can't make a judgment. That's what internal affairs investigations are for.
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I am neutral on this issue.
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MAJ Ron Peery
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MAJ Hill, I read the articles and need some time to digest them Probably will have to read again and make some notes. This is not my dad's FBI, nor even mine. Dad retired in 1974, and I left the Bu in 1980 because the Army looked like a lot more fun. I can only give you my opinions. You are free to accept or reject them.
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COL Signals Intelligence/Electronic Warfare
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Your opinions are highly acceptable and informative.
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MAJ Clinical Psychology
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It would not be legal to selectively screen Vets for PTSD. Lawsuits would abound, and rightfully so. What does the question have to do with the linked video?
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In the Military Intelligence community at the national level, extensive polygraph examinations, extensive special background investigations, and extensive psychological testing is routine. Surely a psychological pre-employment screening of police recruits should not be a problem. For combat veterans desiring employment on a police force, a screen for PTSD would be beneficial to the police force as well as to the American public. I am sympathetic to the plight of veterans diagnosed with PTSD. My older brother is diagnosed with PTSD. I am sympathetic to our nations police force. I am a 15 year State of Florida Private Investigator and Security Specialist. In addition, A Hampton City and Newport News Virgina Special Police Officer, Private Investigator, and Security specialist. In addition, a military Intelligence Officer.
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MAJ Clinical Psychology
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As we all know, being a Vet does not equate to having PTSD and having PTSD does not equate to violent behavior. BTW, being a survivor of sexual assault is a more common cause of PTSD than being a Vet. What is more, excessive use of force does not require a psychological disorder. The clips shown indicate behavior alone. If anyone needs to be tested it should a drug test for the reporter suggesting that Vets are collectively violent menaces to society. In an employment selection process, psychological tests cannot be selectively administered as a condition of employment or an additional hurdle for certain applicants and not others applying for the same job. It would be a discriminatory hiring practice, a misunderstanding of PTSD, and a horribly stigmatized way to treat Vets.
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Well stated. I am not in favor of any unfair treatment to veterans but I do agree with others that before we release a police rookie onto the streets of America with a weapon, we should take measures to ensure that he will not be a threat to society. With that said, I reiterate the fact that In the Military Intelligence community at the national level, extensive polygraph examinations, extensive special background investigations, and extensive psychological testing is routine and a requirement for employment in my career field. It is not considered a discriminatory practice nor unfair treatment. It is simply the United States government ensuring the security of its classified information. With that said, we must ensure the security and well being of the American people. In our military oaths, we swore to defend the American people against enemies both foreign and domestic. We must be proactive in accomplishing that. I am in favor of pre-employment screening that will assure us that our responsibility to defend the American people can be accomplished. Non-discriminatory pre-employment screening is a necessity.
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PVT Infantryman
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It's curious that you would only provide for two alternatives - it must be either a medical/psychological condition or it's hate. Hate comes in all colors, shapes, sizes, and flavors. So do racism and prejudice. It comes from people from both sides of the tracks, and in every pursuit of human endeavor. I think it's probably more of a "problem" because it's getting more attention. Everyone has a camera on their phone, and every news outlet wants to generate ratings and get the story out first. They do so without facts, without any real reporting, and, often, with an agenda they with to push. These high profile cases have tended to be blown way out of proportion, and the victims less of a victim when the evidence comes to light.

There are always going to be bad actors on both sides of the badge, but to answer the question: No. Use a personality assessment to determine risk factors and screen out people based on their own responses.
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MSgt Security Business Analyst
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The hate is spilled over from years of aggression from the ones that are being protected by the Police Force. I had no issues, nor did I (or do I) hate groups of people. As a Police Officer, I was spit on and hit. I did not kill a single person, nor did I shoot anyone.

I was hated because of the uniform I wore. Not a single person that hated me knew who I was or even my first name. None of them gave any of us a chance to show them who we were. They despised and hated us.

The problem I saw was caused from ignorance and misconceptions of their own perceptions. If they would have educated themselves, and maybe follow the law there would be less incidents and agitation
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MAJ Ron Peery
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Now the OTHER side of the story is coming out, with vids and testimony from the people who live in the neighborhood, and the "bad cop" storyline is taking a pounding. A wise old colonel once told me "the first SITREP is always wrong. Wait until you have more facts." Guess that applies here.
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Noted. It is alleged that the policeman involved is suspended pending the results of an internal affairs investigation.
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MAJ Ron Peery
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He was suspended. He resigned today.
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Regardless of whether such cops tend to be veterans, I do not think either PTSD or hatred are the reasons, nor do I think it can necessarily be simplified to that degree. It is likely a conglomeration of factors, a more prominent one being that police are afforded a great deal of authority, and great lenience when that authority is abused.

I take the opinion that power tends to corrupt; and when power is given to an individual who has inclinations to maximize/abuse/etc that power over time - for whatever reasons incline them to do so - and/or that individual had past training/experiences for resorting to force more quickly, and/or that individual takes and "us vs them" mentality, and/or other relatable factors are present in that individual: such power will likely affect them in a negative manner, leading to abuse.

From other responses on here, I've seen a lot of concern about the need for a robust psychological screening process at police departments. But from the experience of friends I have that are in LE, and my own research into the application process for various departments (as I have strongly considered a career in LE after I get out of the military, especially given my educational background); I can say that psychological screening, as well as interviewing friends/family/acquaintances of the applicant, is already commonplace. When I was interviewed for my friend's application to San Jose PD, it was very similar to the interviews I've been through for TS security clearances for both myself and others. Additionally, my friend had to go through multiple written and in-person psychological/behavioral evaluations. Of course, a lot of the questions on written psychological tests are seemingly stupid things such as "have you ever, or do you think you would have enjoyed inflicting pain on an animal?", which to pretty much everyone has an obvious answer. But that partially just goes to show that no matter how thoroughly you attempt to screen people, or read their minds, or otherwise predict their behavior, you can't know how they're going to behave when given great authority.

And so instead of calls for even more screening (of which there is arguably, already as much as is effective), I would advocate calling for police to be more accountable to those tax-payers they serve. With the rise of police and other public sector unions, and public sector employees granting themselves great leeway, who is really serving who? I do not think public sector jobs should have nearly as much job security as they do, especially jobs in LE. If it was as easy to fire a bad cop as it is for a typical business to fire a bad employee, I would not be surprised by statistically significant reductions in police instances of excessive force, and other markers of bad behavior. If we're going to charge an individual with upholding the rule of law, then we need to be hold them to higher standards, which includes greater accountability. Seems I've gone on quite the rant here.....
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Do you think current pre-employment screening methods are effective at detecting PTSD?
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Yes. Especially if one was diagnosed, as it would be in their medical records. I also think if one's PTSD was an issue, sufficient that it would affect their abilities to handle stressful situations, it would likely show itself during academy if a candidate got to that point.
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I am sure you have witnessed multiple recent news broadcast reference police brutality. Are our police forces suffering from PTSD? Should we be more concerned about this phenomena than we have in the past? America briefly lapsed into a period of national civil disturbance. Isn't that cause for greater concern?
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I think it's more likely they're experiencing some sort of authority complex, and it doesn't help that the military trained them to resort to force quickly and to escalate quickly so as to overcome the enemy. Unfortunately the training habits are likely still there, yet the enemy isn't...and so people that get the attention of police who are military vets get to be the surrogate enemy, in a way. Like I speculated in my original post, I think it's likely a wide conglomeration of factors. PTSD could always be one, I just don't think it's particularly likely in light of the other stuff I've speculated on. I think it is indeed a cause for greater concern, I just think that the concern should be directed more towards greater police accountability, and police training that has greater emphasis on deescalation and conflict resolution.

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