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I find this to be humorous and also a legitimate issue. Recently I was at large training compound with multiple units there, basically a "mock up" of a FOB. So while in the latrine some soldiers, that must have been in one of the support units there were talking. They were complaining about the soldiers from the infantry unit calling them "POGs." And without missing a beat someone yells from a stall in the same building "Shut up POG." I couldn't help but to laugh.
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
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Combat Arms Support
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
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From the Wiki but cited to scholarly works not directly related the military. It also makes since as Poggie bait shows up as early as late WWI.
As grunt does not appear in the vernacular until Vietnam, I think I am going with the following:
Originally, the term was a sexual insult in early twentieth century gay culture, as "pogue" was slang for a young male who submitted to sexual advances.[3]
Also referred to boys that were kidnapped by press gangs and brought onto ships during the 1700s, that were then raped by the crew and forced to do other menial labor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogue
Does this mean that calling someone a Pogue is now an EO complaint?
[Humor section redacted but it was fun to write]
As grunt does not appear in the vernacular until Vietnam, I think I am going with the following:
Originally, the term was a sexual insult in early twentieth century gay culture, as "pogue" was slang for a young male who submitted to sexual advances.[3]
Also referred to boys that were kidnapped by press gangs and brought onto ships during the 1700s, that were then raped by the crew and forced to do other menial labor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogue
Does this mean that calling someone a Pogue is now an EO complaint?
[Humor section redacted but it was fun to write]
Pogue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pogue is pejorative military slang for non-combat, staff, and other rear-echelon or support units.[1] "Pogue" frequently includes those who don't have to undergo the stresses that the infantry does.
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Normally the wiki is not terribly reliable. This, however, the links check out.
There are three things I LOVE about this thread.
1. Marines whining about being called a name. Do you have any idea how many times I will re-post that article when my friends talk about how much cooler they were in the Marines.
2. Why is the opinion of the knuckle draggers so important to the rest of the army, what does the Air Force do for approval? (Seriously if you are looking for someone else for approval then why pick that group? Unless they are someone you need approval from?)
3. The term predates almost anyone on this forum? In an organization that prides itself on history and memorizing the most inane details the Marines are would think that Pogue would mean P.O.G. Yet another thing for me to tease my marine friends about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogue
Pride comes from within not from someone else.
There are three things I LOVE about this thread.
1. Marines whining about being called a name. Do you have any idea how many times I will re-post that article when my friends talk about how much cooler they were in the Marines.
2. Why is the opinion of the knuckle draggers so important to the rest of the army, what does the Air Force do for approval? (Seriously if you are looking for someone else for approval then why pick that group? Unless they are someone you need approval from?)
3. The term predates almost anyone on this forum? In an organization that prides itself on history and memorizing the most inane details the Marines are would think that Pogue would mean P.O.G. Yet another thing for me to tease my marine friends about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogue
Pride comes from within not from someone else.
Pogue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pogue is pejorative military slang for non-combat, staff, and other rear-echelon or support units.[1] "Pogue" frequently includes those who don't have to undergo the stresses that the infantry does.
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I took my Dad's advice and went in to learn a trade that being aviation. He was a veteran of Guadalcanal in WWII and said I was smart to learn more then how to dig a foxhole. I took the ribbing knowing I could get a job if I got out.I think POGs are the smart ones.
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I guess I'm getting too old and literal......I had to read several posts before I linked "POG" with an older term we used in my day "POGUE". I always heard it used in reference to a group, not so much to any individual (unless it was in a humorous way). I don't even recollect that it was a disparaging term so much..... Someone else made the analogy of an orchestra sounding different for lack of any one instrument. I compare the term "POG" to "WOODWIND" or "BRASS" or such. A truism comes to mind that I will leave hanging out there for "front liners" who wish to look down on support "POG'S/POGUE'S........"Don't bite the hand that feeds you!" *grin*
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CPT (Join to see)
PO3 John Jeter You are right about the term was not always disparaging. It was just another label. What is happening is societal influence in the army that makes everyone special. The new military wants you think that that deck hand on the ship is as important to the mission as that Seal Operator. If that Seal were to say anything to that deck hand about not being special or crucial to the mission he is wrong. While I don't buy that. We are not all the same. You were a Gunners mate as I see. When stuff went side ways you were needed to eliminate the threat. The guy that part fuel in your gas tank for you boat isn't really playing a role in the mission at that point. I appreciate him for doing his job but when bullets start flying it is up the hitters to clean up shop. But if you say that you are a bully now a days.
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PO3 John Jeter
If the guy who fuels my vessel doesn't check the fuel for water or contaminants, he's going to be a pretty important factor in my mission effectiveness when my engine craps out in the middle of a firefight......The best operator in the world won't get far without the best tools to work with. Chief Banks once told me "You can have the sharpest spear in the world, but without a strong shaft to push it, all you have is a dart!" One of the SEAL team members who deployed with us after a short "exercise" in a nameless portion of the world said "We have the firepower and the will to take on just about anything they can stack up against us. But it's a damned good feeling to see you guys there waiting to pick us up at the end."
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I have read all these comments, back in the "Army" prior to ACU 2005ish, ever branch had its nickname, mud puppies(MP) Gun Bunnies(artillery), Grunts (infantry), legs, pogs, fisters, soap on a rope (air assault) Dirt dart (airborne) Doc(medic) I don't see the point of getting upset, we got the nicknames, because you were respected and part of a exclusive club, because back in those days, we got those names because we worked closely with them, I was a combat camera person, was called a remf, or a leg...like also another person said. If it wasn't for us , they wouldn't have gotten what they needed. my brother who was a tanker, told me they wouldn't say anything to you if didn't like you or help you out
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Just saying that if a soldiers in acting in a POGish fashion they are going to get called out. An example of this is wearing all seven layers of snivel gear when it is in the low 50s or complaining about only getting two hot meals a day or even better complain about having to sleep in a tent when they go out to the field.
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SGT James Colbert
Well LT, when I was with the 10th MTN (LI) as a 55B I had a e-4 specialist who got out of a 3 week feel problem in the dead of winter, because his hair hurt. the rest of us had the flu cold, female without a shower for 6 days, but the quarters because his hair hurt
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Like I have heard- a unit that would pass inspection is not combat effective and a unit combat effective would not pass inspection.
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I read thru and not sure what the acronym POG is for, I guess it is similar to a REMF???
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Person Other than Grunt. It really started in the Navy and Marines. It made it's way to the Army in nam.
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Maybe, if the CSM, and others, didn't wear blinders the soldiers would start correcting themselves? Additionally, if the CSM did not make it to where he was going, there would be enough motivation to make sure this problem was promptly corrected.
Ignoring a problem never helps...if you need examples look at what is going on with immigration and ISIS.
Maybe, if the CSM, and others, didn't wear blinders the soldiers would start correcting themselves? Additionally, if the CSM did not make it to where he was going, there would be enough motivation to make sure this problem was promptly corrected.
Ignoring a problem never helps...if you need examples look at what is going on with immigration and ISIS.
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I haven't been called a POG in a long time. Last time I was I reminded he "individual" that I was the bus driver and since I had signed for the bus and I could either get him and his buddies to the PX or they could walk the four miles in the rain. Didn't matter to me, I didn't need anything from the Shoppette.
On a more serious note. This "Pog" delivered your MRE's, mail, ammuniton, water, and whatever else was put in the conex's I hauled all over Iraq. You have your role, I had mine. I respect what you do, but in the end...the bus keys are still mine.
On a more serious note. This "Pog" delivered your MRE's, mail, ammuniton, water, and whatever else was put in the conex's I hauled all over Iraq. You have your role, I had mine. I respect what you do, but in the end...the bus keys are still mine.
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This is a fascinating discussion, and I have a fluffy answer.
The people who have been in combat situations (ie in firefights, maneuvering to contact, actually attempting to move forward and kill the enemy), have a unique perspective on the world. I cannot explain this perspective, it is above words. These people (usually men due to social norms) have been chosen to follow orders and thereby been forced to do and see things that the majority of people will never have to experience. This includes their fellow SM who has made different choices who will face different orders. These people (the shooters) have an close bond that leads to a severe distrust of the outside world. I would argue that this distrust is borne out of the fact that they have trusted others with their lives and been rewarded in that trust. This will lead to forming a very small and robust circle of trust that will label all outsiders in order to categorize them so that they are easily identifiable.
Do I downplay the role of support people? No, I needed trucks that ran, guns that fired, bullets to shoot, and medical supplies to take care of my platoon. Will I ever trust them like my brother infantrymen? No. Will I label them POG's in my mind for easy identification of those I can likely trust quicker than those I have walked outside the wire with? Probably. Is it a good system? Sometimes but I have served with some piss poor shooters and some seriously awesome POGs.
I do not discount your ability to do your job well in whatever job you have chosen.
I will not trust you as much as Andrew, Bob or Durkin.
Thanks y'all for your patience. You're mostly ok in my book.
As an aside, compared to the soldiers of WWI, WWII, we're all POGs.
The people who have been in combat situations (ie in firefights, maneuvering to contact, actually attempting to move forward and kill the enemy), have a unique perspective on the world. I cannot explain this perspective, it is above words. These people (usually men due to social norms) have been chosen to follow orders and thereby been forced to do and see things that the majority of people will never have to experience. This includes their fellow SM who has made different choices who will face different orders. These people (the shooters) have an close bond that leads to a severe distrust of the outside world. I would argue that this distrust is borne out of the fact that they have trusted others with their lives and been rewarded in that trust. This will lead to forming a very small and robust circle of trust that will label all outsiders in order to categorize them so that they are easily identifiable.
Do I downplay the role of support people? No, I needed trucks that ran, guns that fired, bullets to shoot, and medical supplies to take care of my platoon. Will I ever trust them like my brother infantrymen? No. Will I label them POG's in my mind for easy identification of those I can likely trust quicker than those I have walked outside the wire with? Probably. Is it a good system? Sometimes but I have served with some piss poor shooters and some seriously awesome POGs.
I do not discount your ability to do your job well in whatever job you have chosen.
I will not trust you as much as Andrew, Bob or Durkin.
Thanks y'all for your patience. You're mostly ok in my book.
As an aside, compared to the soldiers of WWI, WWII, we're all POGs.
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