Posted on Sep 10, 2018
Rally Point, What’s your take on the LAND NAV Cheating at TBS?
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The Basic School for Marine Officers is reeling from a cheating scandal that involved six second lieutenants accused of wrongfully obtaining and sharing key grid points for the night land navigation course.
Posted in these groups: 
Basic Officers Course - The Basic School (TBS)
IntegrityAdvanced Land Navigation Course
Basic Officers Course - The Basic School (TBS) IntegrityAdvanced Land Navigation Course
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
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Can't speak for the USMC, but the really stupid thing about this from the Army LN courses I went through, enlisted and commissioned, was that once you got close to a point there was typically a darn path leading to the marker you had to find. Yes, they changed the points from time to time, but usually to other places that had paths leading to them. If these folks had to cheat on such a basic course they need to be back on the block so they can navigate using their phone. Guess some of those "2LT with a compass" jokes are well deserved.
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CWO3 (Join to see)
Sir, I can tell you this. The 5/6 LANDNAV courses are all hard minus the first one that’s set up as an introduction. 2 are at night. All are in different areas and no trails leading to the small AMO Canns as points. But they are not impossible and you can remediate on the weekend. Zero excuse to blatantly cheat.
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COL Brian Shea
Chief, thanks for the insight. Absolutely agree there is no excuse for cheating, even if some of the points are hard to find. We did night LN as well, and yes it was more challenging but as you say, not impossible. Just look at how many what - tens of thousands? - have made it through. If someone (1) felt they had to cheat to pass and/or (2) felt it was okay to do so, they need to find another line of work. Preferably one that does not involve leading anyone else.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
The course we used at the 59th ORD Brigade, was the hardest I have ever been through. Every stake was in the ground not more than a foot above ground level, and there were at least three other points with in a two meter concentric circle , that and it was near their headquarters in Germany which was pretty much black forest territory. You had to work for it.
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As retired Navy enlisted don't have experience with that evolution and some think I don't have the right, but as a retired BM1 who spent almost 10 years hauling Marines from one point to another(LST, LKA, LSD), it's kind of scary. Leaders of marines that can't find their way around in a 'safe, controled' environment are going to lead them into a hostile environment? 'Just look for the flashes' and 'follow you ears' doesn't sound like a good way to go into combat. The punishment should be harsh. The marines they train to lead deserve better than those individuals. FYI, I hate cheaters at any level!
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LtCol Robert Quinter
At least you had your own navigators on the ship PO1 Robert George, you might have ended up in Antarctica
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CWO3 (Join to see)
PO1 Robert George - LKA was smoothest amphib I ever sailed on. A pain for deck dept for off-load of gear, and lots of crane work and wet nets for troops.
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PO1 Robert George
CWO3 (Join to see) - For a Boatswains Mate only thing better to learn your rate is an Aux Ship. My last ship was an AE out of Earle, NJ. Retired from it. Actually got off in Marseilles 2 hours before they got orders to go thru Suez. Was on a C-5 from Ramstein when Pilot got Pa and announced Bush 1 just kicked Desert storm into gear. One I managed to miss!
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