Posted on Apr 2, 2015
Rankism. Is there such a thing in the military?
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Rankism-discrimination against people on the grounds of rank.
There has always been grudges held at the various levels but for what reason. Countless times a new 2LT walks into a situation where he is instantly disliked for merely showing up. How many times have we thought of a new Private as automatically going to make mistakes so you have to treat as such. Or, the CSM that everyone thinks they only care about Uniform violations and walking on the grass.
Recently we found that SMA Dan Dailey revise the tattoo policy. I, for one, didn't see that coming. I didn't think a new SMA would make such a change like that for soldiers. At times we feel that they are so far disconnected from the soldiers they may not have us in mind.
Is this something that we face. Do soldiers with a certain rank or position get grouped in the a mass assumption of others that had that rank in the past?
There has always been grudges held at the various levels but for what reason. Countless times a new 2LT walks into a situation where he is instantly disliked for merely showing up. How many times have we thought of a new Private as automatically going to make mistakes so you have to treat as such. Or, the CSM that everyone thinks they only care about Uniform violations and walking on the grass.
Recently we found that SMA Dan Dailey revise the tattoo policy. I, for one, didn't see that coming. I didn't think a new SMA would make such a change like that for soldiers. At times we feel that they are so far disconnected from the soldiers they may not have us in mind.
Is this something that we face. Do soldiers with a certain rank or position get grouped in the a mass assumption of others that had that rank in the past?
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Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 142
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I'm reading through some of these responses, and I must say, a lot of people are quick to judge a butter bar. I love the people that see me out in ACU or God forbid ASUs and assume I'm a case of stolen valor. There are some junior officers that have extensive enlisted or NCO experience. Personally, I've been in for over 12 years, and reached SSG prior to commissioning. So I'd say I'm well versed in the role and responsibilities of an infantryman. I personally hate the stereotypes, because while they may apply to 90%, God help the poor E4 that lumps me in as 'just another ignorant officer'
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1LT (Join to see)
Sir, I read that one! I love it! IMHO, I have a conflict, as I believe in rank and courtesy, and I also believe that behind closed doors, there is no rank between lieutenants. So I guess, depends on the audience?
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CPT (Join to see)
I saluted a 1LT and instantly was questioned on what I was doing. I still did it anyway.
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Suspended Profile
Doesn't AFI and protocol dictate that you render a salute to all officers. Pretty sure there is not a Col to Col or Lt to Lt exception clause. Respect for rank is basic and needs to be demonstrated at all ranks if for no other reason as a role model to those "fresh off the bus."
1LT (Join to see)
MSgt Stacy, I couldn't tell you AFI, as I'm not well versed in the regs of other branches. However, Army regs require customs and courtesies to be rendered. On the other hand, there is an unwritten custom in the Army that 'there is no rank amongst lieutenants.' The 'rule' there is that, among each other's company only, customs and courtesies can go out the window. If a 1LT had a problem with it, of course, I'd salute and call him sir. However, usually, it just makes the Sr feel awkward, as what's written and what's done in practice are two different things.
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I think more so socially than professionally. Professionally, you are bound to have groups based on rank. Heck, you're supposed to. It's the same way outside of the Military. Ditch diggers don't go to management meetings because they don't do management functions. On the social side, the Military has (or had) things like Officer's Clubs that would never fly on the outside....can you imagine going downtown and seeing a club that is "management only"?
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CPO (Join to see)
Can you say Executive Suite or executive bathroom? The board room? Or even manager's office. There are lots of restricted spaces in the civilian world that the average employee is not allowed to tread and areas exempted from certain company policies (tobacco use, alcohol consumption, etc).
There are also places in the civilian world that cater strictly to the executive class. The average Joe is not welcomed and is snubbed. The average Joe, typically belonging to a lower socioeconomic class, also cannot afford to visit executive establishments and is thus excluded from the property. Not to mention yacht clubs, golf clubs, private clubs, etc... (Yhea, yhea, anyone one can join as long as they have an executive pay check --- which the average employee doesn't have)
While officer clubs may have their roots in snobbery, there are currently strong anti-fraternization reasons to separate the ranks -- especially while drinking. Personally I love the Chiefs' Mess (the people and the place) and the Chiefs in the mess are who pay for all the perks it contains. The officers' Wardroom is free to do the same and at some commands the PO1 Association (E6) out does the officers
There are also places in the civilian world that cater strictly to the executive class. The average Joe is not welcomed and is snubbed. The average Joe, typically belonging to a lower socioeconomic class, also cannot afford to visit executive establishments and is thus excluded from the property. Not to mention yacht clubs, golf clubs, private clubs, etc... (Yhea, yhea, anyone one can join as long as they have an executive pay check --- which the average employee doesn't have)
While officer clubs may have their roots in snobbery, there are currently strong anti-fraternization reasons to separate the ranks -- especially while drinking. Personally I love the Chiefs' Mess (the people and the place) and the Chiefs in the mess are who pay for all the perks it contains. The officers' Wardroom is free to do the same and at some commands the PO1 Association (E6) out does the officers
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A new and made-up concept, "rank-ism." Discrimination based on rank? What ever happened to different responsibility, authority, privileges and burdens.
We "discriminate" every day - "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another" according to the dictionary. That is good discrimination, what we are all supposed to do. To suggest that this is "bad discrimination" - e.g., unlawful, like discrimination based on race, color, creed, national origin - well, let's just say that the Supreme Court has not yet declared "lower in rank" a protected class.
Sounds pretty "entitled" to me!
We "discriminate" every day - "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another" according to the dictionary. That is good discrimination, what we are all supposed to do. To suggest that this is "bad discrimination" - e.g., unlawful, like discrimination based on race, color, creed, national origin - well, let's just say that the Supreme Court has not yet declared "lower in rank" a protected class.
Sounds pretty "entitled" to me!
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"Shut up, boot. You don't rate." Every Marine's fleet experience. Damn right there's a hierarchy.
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So you are asserting that the SMA is abusing his power by modifying the tatto policy?
How is the new tattoo policy is a negative form of discrimination?
I think you are confusing subject that have nothing to do with "rankism".
How is the new tattoo policy is a negative form of discrimination?
I think you are confusing subject that have nothing to do with "rankism".
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CPT (Join to see)
No. It has nothing to do with him abusing his power. It was a pleasant surprise. Everyone said it but I for didn't think he would change it. We haven't had the best of luck with SMAs. They are usually tend to be driven what they feel the Army needs and not what the soldiers say. The last SMA changed the policy. After hearing from the soldiers the didn't change him mind and pretty much said "too bad." This is one of the first things this SMA did. It is reassuring for him to do that. At times we usually feel that the CSM and SGM are disconnected from the troops.
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CPO (Join to see)
Sir, the definition of the rankism includes abuse of power and the question implies discrimination. Either way, it seems like the tattoo policy has nothing to do with rankism.
"Rankism-discrimination against people on the grounds of rank. ... Recently we found that SMA Dan Dailey revise the tattoo policy. ... At times we feel that they are so far disconnected from the soldiers they may not have us in mind. ..."
"Rankism-discrimination against people on the grounds of rank. ... Recently we found that SMA Dan Dailey revise the tattoo policy. ... At times we feel that they are so far disconnected from the soldiers they may not have us in mind. ..."
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I believe the term is being misapplied in this question.
Rankism is a relative new word invented in the late 90s and made into a career by Robert Fuller. It falls along the lines of classism, elitism, bullying, abuse of power, alpha/omega, condescending, patronizing, "I'm better than you -ism", etc, etc, etc.... and has little to do with "rank" as defined by the military. Rankism is a more popular invention than the failing invention of "condescendism", but it is in the same ballpark.
According to Robert Fuller: "Rankism is a collective name for the various ways power can be abused in the context of a rank difference."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-fuller/rankism-vs-the-golden-rule_b_3186821.html
Examples of rankism (some may overlap):
() Illegitimate uses of legitimate rank (e.g., a boss extorting money or sex from an employee)
() The creation or use of social hierarchies that condone degradation and exploitation (e.g., the social construct of white superiority and supremacy, the caste system)
() Damaging or degrading assertions of rank (e.g., hate crimes, sexual harassment, child abuse)
() Actions or social arrangements that violate the principle of equal dignity (e.g., racial segregation, lack of the franchise)
() Putting others down; disempowering them (name-calling or obfuscation by elites)
() Using the power inherent in rank to strengthen the hold on a senior position or otherwise advantage incumbents (e.g., office-holders exploiting the advantages of incumbency to insure retention of rank; life-time appointments that leave tenured teachers, professors, judges, and clerics virtually unaccountable.
() Self-service as contrasted with serving the avowed purpose of the organization (e.g., executives awarding themselves bonuses not on the basis of performance, but simply by virtue of their power to get away with doing so)
() Using the power of rank not to empower others, but to promote, enrich, or empower oneself (e.g., predatory lending)
Rankism is a relative new word invented in the late 90s and made into a career by Robert Fuller. It falls along the lines of classism, elitism, bullying, abuse of power, alpha/omega, condescending, patronizing, "I'm better than you -ism", etc, etc, etc.... and has little to do with "rank" as defined by the military. Rankism is a more popular invention than the failing invention of "condescendism", but it is in the same ballpark.
According to Robert Fuller: "Rankism is a collective name for the various ways power can be abused in the context of a rank difference."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-fuller/rankism-vs-the-golden-rule_b_3186821.html
Examples of rankism (some may overlap):
() Illegitimate uses of legitimate rank (e.g., a boss extorting money or sex from an employee)
() The creation or use of social hierarchies that condone degradation and exploitation (e.g., the social construct of white superiority and supremacy, the caste system)
() Damaging or degrading assertions of rank (e.g., hate crimes, sexual harassment, child abuse)
() Actions or social arrangements that violate the principle of equal dignity (e.g., racial segregation, lack of the franchise)
() Putting others down; disempowering them (name-calling or obfuscation by elites)
() Using the power inherent in rank to strengthen the hold on a senior position or otherwise advantage incumbents (e.g., office-holders exploiting the advantages of incumbency to insure retention of rank; life-time appointments that leave tenured teachers, professors, judges, and clerics virtually unaccountable.
() Self-service as contrasted with serving the avowed purpose of the organization (e.g., executives awarding themselves bonuses not on the basis of performance, but simply by virtue of their power to get away with doing so)
() Using the power of rank not to empower others, but to promote, enrich, or empower oneself (e.g., predatory lending)
Many insist that man's predatory practices are undiminished and ineradicable. But an opposing trend is becoming visible. While admitting that "the arc of the moral universe is long," Martin Luther King Jr. believed that "it bends toward justice."
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I am using it as I stated what the definition is as listed in my original question.
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CPO (Join to see)
Again, I believe the term is being misapplied in this question.
Reading the replies it seems clear that most people do not have an understanding of what the word really means. A classic case of trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.
Reading the replies it seems clear that most people do not have an understanding of what the word really means. A classic case of trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.
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I believe that it make sense when It comes to soldiers brand new to the army. Soldiers with less experience are bound to make more mistakes than those who already know their place and duty.
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I was in DEP at 17, boot camp at 18, E-1 out of boot camp. Let's just say I was on everyone's agenda all day every day. I was blessed with hell-of-a squad leader that took care of me.
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