Posted on Apr 2, 2015
Rankism. Is there such a thing in the military?
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Rankism-discrimination against people on the grounds of rank.
There has always been grudges held at the various levels but for what reason. Countless times a new 2LT walks into a situation where he is instantly disliked for merely showing up. How many times have we thought of a new Private as automatically going to make mistakes so you have to treat as such. Or, the CSM that everyone thinks they only care about Uniform violations and walking on the grass.
Recently we found that SMA Dan Dailey revise the tattoo policy. I, for one, didn't see that coming. I didn't think a new SMA would make such a change like that for soldiers. At times we feel that they are so far disconnected from the soldiers they may not have us in mind.
Is this something that we face. Do soldiers with a certain rank or position get grouped in the a mass assumption of others that had that rank in the past?
There has always been grudges held at the various levels but for what reason. Countless times a new 2LT walks into a situation where he is instantly disliked for merely showing up. How many times have we thought of a new Private as automatically going to make mistakes so you have to treat as such. Or, the CSM that everyone thinks they only care about Uniform violations and walking on the grass.
Recently we found that SMA Dan Dailey revise the tattoo policy. I, for one, didn't see that coming. I didn't think a new SMA would make such a change like that for soldiers. At times we feel that they are so far disconnected from the soldiers they may not have us in mind.
Is this something that we face. Do soldiers with a certain rank or position get grouped in the a mass assumption of others that had that rank in the past?
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Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 142
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Of course there is....but it occurs at all ranks.....junior enlisted protect each other as much as senior enlisted do.......the only difference is the more rank you have usually means the more "help" you can give.
Now if you want to discuss the legality of this "help" that's a whole other topic.
I've seen everything from covering a shift for someone, without the boss being notified, to taking your sweet as time getting a Command Directed order for a BAC.....are they both wrong...probably....are they both illegal...maybe, but burden of proof would be tough....does it happen at all ranks and positions.....yes. It's the nature of the solider to help his fellow solider when he can.....most good soldiers will not "help" if there are UCMJ type things going on....but we all know that some do.
Now if you want to discuss the legality of this "help" that's a whole other topic.
I've seen everything from covering a shift for someone, without the boss being notified, to taking your sweet as time getting a Command Directed order for a BAC.....are they both wrong...probably....are they both illegal...maybe, but burden of proof would be tough....does it happen at all ranks and positions.....yes. It's the nature of the solider to help his fellow solider when he can.....most good soldiers will not "help" if there are UCMJ type things going on....but we all know that some do.
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I saw it all the time in my career but what really bothered me was when I retired. I had a 20 year career in an Intelligence MOS and always maxed my PT Test, excelled in my job and did additional things like Air Assault and Drill Sergeant to stand above as much as I could. During my career I received two Meritorious Service Medals and wa s very proud of them. Both were awarded for my everyday duties over my three year tour. When I retired I expected to get a nice award after 20 years of service that was commensurate with my duty over that period and was the culmination of many years of hard work. I was put in for a Silver Star and was told because I was an enlisted person, those types of awards were not for me but saved for Officers. No other way to say it but utter bullshit. I got a third Meritorius Service Medal, yeah....
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CPT (Join to see)
Were you deployed? A silver star only for gallantry in combat. Was it a Distinguished Service Medal possible.
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SFC Martin Applegate
Actually I believe it was a Legion of Merit, I was working for NSA at the time and it was over 14 years ago so I am not certain. I would have to check my records but whatever it was it was downgraded to a MSM when I already had two from my service, how is that a retirement award, I was insulted. Especially when I was told it was only for Majors and above.
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Suspended Profile
Least you got an MSN...be happy.......mine was downgraded to a acheivement medal because I failed one (1) PT test the year I was retiring in after having 2 surgeries in less than six months.....told them to shove it up their ass and keep it.....anyway guess what i'm saying is life sucks.....seems to always be those around us whom we perceive as getting over....and we always notice them.....but there are also those who are getting screwed harder or at least as good.....that we seem to overlook.....besides all medals do is look good on gravestone....they mean nothing to the civilian world (except MOH)....ohh also had a Bronze Star downgraded by the AF when I was imbedded with the Army for a year in Afghanistan (army approved it...but the AF who knew nothing about what I did said no)....anyway thanks for your service....you and your loved ones know the truth about all that you sacrificed for your country....and that, at least for me, is enough.
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In the Army realm, I believe the ones who get it the worst, as far as assumptions go, are 2LTs. It's assumed that Privates are fairly inexperienced. But usually, when a butter bar walks in, we KNOW he has no clue what's going on, but is forced to act like he or she does.
Even though I know better, when I see a single gold bar, my brain goes, "Here we go".
Even though I know better, when I see a single gold bar, my brain goes, "Here we go".
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SGT (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see), just look back on your days as a 2LT with fondness. Don't let 90% of your subordinates down, Sir.
Take a deep breath.
Look in the mirror, and know...KNOW...you were the BOSS of "Hooked on Phonics".
Take a deep breath.
Look in the mirror, and know...KNOW...you were the BOSS of "Hooked on Phonics".
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1SG (Join to see)
I talked to officer recruiting and I am planning on becoming an officer. So it will be fun to walk in as a 2LT and see what happens!
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CPT (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) We had a prior E8 in our Infantry BLOC class. He was a good guy. He was civil affairs first. Very experienced and decorated. He was not the regular LT either. It is funny to saw what happens. I am sure you will get the LT jokes too.
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1SG (Join to see)
LT, I figure a good midlife crisis like going officer will be better than buying a corvette! Lol!!! Leading troops from a different position will be fun!
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I've never heard the term "rankism". But, I do know the term "do what your rank can handle".
I'd say it exists. You see it at MacDill due to the heavy concentration of officers that two major commands bring. Last time I stopped into the dental clinic in the hospital, there was a brig gen inspection while I was in the lobby, and also a maj general that came into the waiting room. The responses of the staff was far different to them than it was to me (not that I blame them). I'd guess it goes on in the GS rated spectrum as well.
It's really no different than business. I used to see Dieter Zetsche (chairman of mercedes) at work before I was in the military. The guy wouldn't allow the underlings to go in the elevator with him. He had a limousine that sat outside the entrance all day waiting for him as well.
I'd say it exists. You see it at MacDill due to the heavy concentration of officers that two major commands bring. Last time I stopped into the dental clinic in the hospital, there was a brig gen inspection while I was in the lobby, and also a maj general that came into the waiting room. The responses of the staff was far different to them than it was to me (not that I blame them). I'd guess it goes on in the GS rated spectrum as well.
It's really no different than business. I used to see Dieter Zetsche (chairman of mercedes) at work before I was in the military. The guy wouldn't allow the underlings to go in the elevator with him. He had a limousine that sat outside the entrance all day waiting for him as well.
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Yes, rankism is real. I think part of it is that service members are told rank stereotypes since they get in and if they see someone match that stereotype it becomes true. I know when I went to basic and AIT most of the examples you gave were told to me. Then I actually some leaders doing it, especially the CSMs yelling about grass and uniforms. The idea that all CSMs do it was kind of burned into my brain then. I can't help but think every time a CSM is around that he is going to watch me close to see if I am doing something wrong.
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There absolutely is an issue. There are the enlisted that feel officers play that game and vise versa. I have seen it happen time and time again.
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CPT (Join to see)
As long as we can admit there is a problem then there is hope we can address it. We just can't accept it for "that is just the way it is" and move on.
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SSG (Join to see)
There's also the issue of MOS discrimination, there are certain units where if you are a supporting MOS the unit will not give you as much credibility and opportunities. You need to sometimes deal with what I like to call " The Good Ole Boy System".
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When I decided to retire I went to several seminars for outbound service members. I can remember a seminar leader telling us to treat everyone in a company from the janitor to the CEO with the same respect. Not just because it’s the right thing to do, but the janitor for the company might have been working there for the past 20 years, and maybe even be a trusted council of the CEO. Best way to look stupid is to treat others as if they are stupid, and you just might lose your job for such behavior.
Perhaps we are all guilty of grouping at one point or the other in our lives. I’m honest enough to admit guilt in this area as a young NCO. Its one of the areas that I wish I was smarter in sooner.
Do we still group without realizing it?
Are we to some extent all victims of our environment?
Are we to busy in our daily lives to act as our own Human Resources Manager?
Perhaps we are all guilty of grouping at one point or the other in our lives. I’m honest enough to admit guilt in this area as a young NCO. Its one of the areas that I wish I was smarter in sooner.
Do we still group without realizing it?
Are we to some extent all victims of our environment?
Are we to busy in our daily lives to act as our own Human Resources Manager?
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MSgt Steve Miller
To answer my own questions:
Do we still group without realizing it? Most likely, as there always seems to be the "in crowd" so to speak at every company I worked. Its a human nature issue, and one of many reasons companies have human resources managers.
Are we victims of our environment? To some extent...YES. While I was active duty there were some fairly clear groups already established long ago. Non-NCO's, NCO's, SNCO, and Officers. It breaks down even more so, but there is little point. Most of the grouping that exists are in place for good reason, but others develop from the idea of who did more.
I went to combat, and you stayed in CONUS. Those that went compared to those that were not needed on the battlefield.
I have more of a salad bowl than you, yet you have more rank. Junior members having accomplished more based on deployments than senior members.
MOS is also a big one! The list goes on, but this kind of thing is not going away. The military is not a bunch of guys and gals sitting around signing Kumbaya.
Should we act as our own Human Resources Manager? I think we should check ourselves from time to time to assure we are being the best leader possible. We can’t develop a killing machine with fluff, but we can treat each other with respect.
Do we still group without realizing it? Most likely, as there always seems to be the "in crowd" so to speak at every company I worked. Its a human nature issue, and one of many reasons companies have human resources managers.
Are we victims of our environment? To some extent...YES. While I was active duty there were some fairly clear groups already established long ago. Non-NCO's, NCO's, SNCO, and Officers. It breaks down even more so, but there is little point. Most of the grouping that exists are in place for good reason, but others develop from the idea of who did more.
I went to combat, and you stayed in CONUS. Those that went compared to those that were not needed on the battlefield.
I have more of a salad bowl than you, yet you have more rank. Junior members having accomplished more based on deployments than senior members.
MOS is also a big one! The list goes on, but this kind of thing is not going away. The military is not a bunch of guys and gals sitting around signing Kumbaya.
Should we act as our own Human Resources Manager? I think we should check ourselves from time to time to assure we are being the best leader possible. We can’t develop a killing machine with fluff, but we can treat each other with respect.
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CPT (Join to see)
I think we all did that at one point. I did the same as a young NCO also. I have learned to the same philosophy. I am peers with all my soldiers. It is just that I am more responsibility and am entrusted with their welfare. I am no better than any other soldier. I am better trained but that was for me being able to handle the responsibility and not to show that I was better.
Great Post.
Great Post.
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The Army is designed to function in this way, which is why we wear uniforms. It doesn't stop at rank either, it also includes badges, tabs, unit patches, and even haircuts. We are all trained from the beginning to make a five second assessment of who we are dealing with so that proper customs and courtesies can be extended.
However in a slightly different direction, I have noticed that a lot of field grade officers do things they know are against regulation and policy because they know they won't be corrected. Most of the time the decisions they make are based on common sense. I only wonder that if they have enough rank to break policies, do they have enough rank to change policies?
However in a slightly different direction, I have noticed that a lot of field grade officers do things they know are against regulation and policy because they know they won't be corrected. Most of the time the decisions they make are based on common sense. I only wonder that if they have enough rank to break policies, do they have enough rank to change policies?
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The only ranks I've ever seen discriminated against are E1-3 (including SPC) and Butter Bars as well as 1stLt....other than that I don't know what your talking about. It's it's not in the FM it didn't happen.
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CPT (Join to see)
True. They are the most apt to get it. But I have seen that as once you make CSM they automatically think you lose all your common sense.
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