Posted on Jun 15, 2015
Reader reaction to 'A Secret History of SEAL Team 6' ... is anybody here surprised?
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Brutal, misguided killers? Courageous heroes to whom our country is deeply in debt? Or both?
More than 1,000 readers of a Sunday story about SEAL Team 6 debated those questions in a discussion that reached the heights of patriotic idealism and plumbed the depths of war-weary cynicism.
The article probed the culture of a secretive Special Operations unit, which often acts with limited oversight, and situated it in the context of how today’s wars are fought. It implicated the team in troubling failures, like the killing of a British aid worker it was trying to rescue from the Taliban or the deaths of innocent civilians, one a young, unarmed Afghan girl. The article also spotlighted the unit’s triumphs apart from the Osama bin Laden raid, such as rescuing Pfc. Jessica Lynch in Iraq, or saving Capt. Richard Phillips from Somali pirates (thus inspiring the Tom Hanks movie, “Captain Phillips”).
A large number of readers lauded SEAL Team 6 for its work.
“To many of us out here, you are heroes serving thanklessly in the dirtiest war(s) our country has ever encountered,” wrote Jeremy from Santa Cruz, an emergency room doctor. “I wish it wasn’t necessary, but it is, and few have the guts to do it. Thank you. There is nothing else to say.”
Jim from Tucson agreed: “I’m very glad we have men like those in Seal Team 6 who are trained to perform with complete efficiency in desperately difficult situations. In a world of asymmetrical warfare, the Seal Team 6 members are the tip of the spear against ruthless zealots.”
Uncle Hud, who identified himself as a Navy veteran, wrote: “War is ugly, brutal and unimaginably violent. To wage war successfully, you must be uglier, more brutal, and embrace violence. Anything less ensures defeat. I am thankful my service held none of these attributes but recognize others’ service demands it.”
Other readers praised the SEALs yet pointed to moral quandaries inherent in their operations. Wrote commenter BlueMoose from Binghamton: “I am torn between being proud of these people and horrified at what they do. In a guerrilla war, there is always the danger of becoming worse than the enemy.”
And a solid core of readers unilaterally condemned SEAL Team 6, sometimes harshly.
“One SEAL member slashed an enemy combatant 91! times,” exclaimed DB Cooper, of New York, referring to a 2011 yacht hijacking off Africa, which left four Americans dead. “Please take a moment to think about that. Think about the mind-set. These are trained murderers who serve a very dark and disturbing agenda of the establishment.”
Mike D., from Brooklyn, was succinct: “You may see heroes. I see errand boys, sent by a grocery clerk, to collect a bill.”
Others took issue with the larger ideals SEALs are battling for and with the military complex engaging them.
“I’m not saying many in the military are not great people,” said Vlad from Wallachia. “But this jingoism and blind love for all things death and destruction will have a price. For who are these guys fighting? Big banks? Big oil? Certainly not me.”
Wrote Ed Burke, from Long Island: “The U.S. military views its combat operators as they do a Jeep, or a Truck, something to use up and replace when destroyed. The V.A. debacles of the last 20 years have only demonstrated the truth of what I just said. May God have mercy on these poor souls.”
Some readers mulled the lack of congressional or broader military oversight of Team 6.
“Secret warfare is inimical in a democracy,” claimed Doug Terry from Maryland. “The more there is, the more outrage it presents to ‘rule by the people.’ The article seems to indicate we have crossed the line many times and it warrants a demand on the part of the public to know what is happening, and for those in leadership to restrain the cowboys doing the killing and those who send them on their way.”
But William C. Plumpe of Detroit, Mich., pointed out: “Sometimes things need to be done that require darkness of sky and darkness of the mind. Not everything can or should be revealed. That doesn’t mean no oversight but you simply cannot micromanage warfare, particularly special ops, if you want any chance of winning.”
One of the most moving reader posts discussed a 2011 incident mentioned in the piece: the downing of helicopter Extortion 17 in Afghanistan, which killed all aboard, including 17 SEALs.
Scott B from Florida commented: “Did anyone even consider who these men really are? They are husbands, sons, fathers, brothers, uncles. They are college graduates, Eagle Scouts, captain of their sports team. They put their life on the line every single day for you and me, protecting our freedom. Have you done that? If you haven’t, then don’t question something you know nothing about.
“My son lies in Arlington next to his brave teammates of Extortion 17. Don’t ever forget their sacrifices.”
============================================================
http://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2015/06/11/heroes-or-killers-a-secret-history-of-seal-team-6-draws-a-range-of-reader-reaction/?hpw&rref&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well
More than 1,000 readers of a Sunday story about SEAL Team 6 debated those questions in a discussion that reached the heights of patriotic idealism and plumbed the depths of war-weary cynicism.
The article probed the culture of a secretive Special Operations unit, which often acts with limited oversight, and situated it in the context of how today’s wars are fought. It implicated the team in troubling failures, like the killing of a British aid worker it was trying to rescue from the Taliban or the deaths of innocent civilians, one a young, unarmed Afghan girl. The article also spotlighted the unit’s triumphs apart from the Osama bin Laden raid, such as rescuing Pfc. Jessica Lynch in Iraq, or saving Capt. Richard Phillips from Somali pirates (thus inspiring the Tom Hanks movie, “Captain Phillips”).
A large number of readers lauded SEAL Team 6 for its work.
“To many of us out here, you are heroes serving thanklessly in the dirtiest war(s) our country has ever encountered,” wrote Jeremy from Santa Cruz, an emergency room doctor. “I wish it wasn’t necessary, but it is, and few have the guts to do it. Thank you. There is nothing else to say.”
Jim from Tucson agreed: “I’m very glad we have men like those in Seal Team 6 who are trained to perform with complete efficiency in desperately difficult situations. In a world of asymmetrical warfare, the Seal Team 6 members are the tip of the spear against ruthless zealots.”
Uncle Hud, who identified himself as a Navy veteran, wrote: “War is ugly, brutal and unimaginably violent. To wage war successfully, you must be uglier, more brutal, and embrace violence. Anything less ensures defeat. I am thankful my service held none of these attributes but recognize others’ service demands it.”
Other readers praised the SEALs yet pointed to moral quandaries inherent in their operations. Wrote commenter BlueMoose from Binghamton: “I am torn between being proud of these people and horrified at what they do. In a guerrilla war, there is always the danger of becoming worse than the enemy.”
And a solid core of readers unilaterally condemned SEAL Team 6, sometimes harshly.
“One SEAL member slashed an enemy combatant 91! times,” exclaimed DB Cooper, of New York, referring to a 2011 yacht hijacking off Africa, which left four Americans dead. “Please take a moment to think about that. Think about the mind-set. These are trained murderers who serve a very dark and disturbing agenda of the establishment.”
Mike D., from Brooklyn, was succinct: “You may see heroes. I see errand boys, sent by a grocery clerk, to collect a bill.”
Others took issue with the larger ideals SEALs are battling for and with the military complex engaging them.
“I’m not saying many in the military are not great people,” said Vlad from Wallachia. “But this jingoism and blind love for all things death and destruction will have a price. For who are these guys fighting? Big banks? Big oil? Certainly not me.”
Wrote Ed Burke, from Long Island: “The U.S. military views its combat operators as they do a Jeep, or a Truck, something to use up and replace when destroyed. The V.A. debacles of the last 20 years have only demonstrated the truth of what I just said. May God have mercy on these poor souls.”
Some readers mulled the lack of congressional or broader military oversight of Team 6.
“Secret warfare is inimical in a democracy,” claimed Doug Terry from Maryland. “The more there is, the more outrage it presents to ‘rule by the people.’ The article seems to indicate we have crossed the line many times and it warrants a demand on the part of the public to know what is happening, and for those in leadership to restrain the cowboys doing the killing and those who send them on their way.”
But William C. Plumpe of Detroit, Mich., pointed out: “Sometimes things need to be done that require darkness of sky and darkness of the mind. Not everything can or should be revealed. That doesn’t mean no oversight but you simply cannot micromanage warfare, particularly special ops, if you want any chance of winning.”
One of the most moving reader posts discussed a 2011 incident mentioned in the piece: the downing of helicopter Extortion 17 in Afghanistan, which killed all aboard, including 17 SEALs.
Scott B from Florida commented: “Did anyone even consider who these men really are? They are husbands, sons, fathers, brothers, uncles. They are college graduates, Eagle Scouts, captain of their sports team. They put their life on the line every single day for you and me, protecting our freedom. Have you done that? If you haven’t, then don’t question something you know nothing about.
“My son lies in Arlington next to his brave teammates of Extortion 17. Don’t ever forget their sacrifices.”
============================================================
http://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2015/06/11/heroes-or-killers-a-secret-history-of-seal-team-6-draws-a-range-of-reader-reaction/?hpw&rref&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well
Special Operations
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 7
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I think that there is a reason that Special Operations is supposed to be a closely guarded secret. These are rough men that do a very difficult and demanding job under enormous pressure and dangerous conditions. They are trained as well as any our nation can produce. What they do daily, I can only scratch the surface of.
They do the work that needs to be done, at the direct behest of our civilian leadership. None of these operations happened in a vacuum, nor were they locally generated. To say that they were going rogue is disingenuous, to say the least.
SO does not always go well, and sometimes there are consequences that are embarrassing. It seems that the administration is just fine with cloaking itself in glory when the missions work, and quick to blame when there are setbacks.
I for one am grateful that such fine men exist.
They do the work that needs to be done, at the direct behest of our civilian leadership. None of these operations happened in a vacuum, nor were they locally generated. To say that they were going rogue is disingenuous, to say the least.
SO does not always go well, and sometimes there are consequences that are embarrassing. It seems that the administration is just fine with cloaking itself in glory when the missions work, and quick to blame when there are setbacks.
I for one am grateful that such fine men exist.
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It's the NY Times, they publish nothing but garbage, the beat writers are liberal hacks that what to destroy this nation..
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There's a lot of discussion on SOF being too inhuman, NSA being too intrusive, anti Nuke, etc. I'm in the camp of we're spending good money on this stuff and they better be damn good beyond anything I can think of. That said, there is the "trust" question as a high level of skill and power gets corrupted so easily. To be very effective you'll botch a percentage and incur collateral damage. Well that comes with the game. I get tired of the whiners who want to change everything based on a visible botch. We learn in systems theory that the worse thing you can do is change a whole system based on a "special cause event". But that's what the politicals do all the time wasting more of our hard earned money and making us less effective and less secure.
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