Posted on Jul 12, 2015
Recent study finds that more guns does not lead to less crime. What are your thoughts on the issue?
42.7K
821
308
105
105
0
A high-profile shooting, like the June 17 crime that left dead nine members of a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, is typically followed by calls for greater gun control, along with counter arguments that the best way to stop gun crimes is with more guns.
"The one thing that would have at least ameliorated the horrible situation in Charleston would have been that if somebody in that prayer meeting had a conceal carry or there had been either an off-duty policeman or an on-duty policeman, somebody with the legal authority to carry a firearm and could have stopped the shooter," presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said in a Fox News interview on June 19.
A new study, however, throws cold water on the idea that a well-armed populace deters criminals or prevents murders. Instead, higher ownership of guns in a state is linked to more firearm robberies, more firearm assaults and more homicide in general.
"We found no support for the hypothesis that owning more guns leads to a drop or a reduction in violent crime," said study researcher Michael Monuteaux, an epidemiologist and professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. "Instead, we found the opposite."
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/guns-dont-deter-crime-study-finds/ar-AAcDdis
"The one thing that would have at least ameliorated the horrible situation in Charleston would have been that if somebody in that prayer meeting had a conceal carry or there had been either an off-duty policeman or an on-duty policeman, somebody with the legal authority to carry a firearm and could have stopped the shooter," presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said in a Fox News interview on June 19.
A new study, however, throws cold water on the idea that a well-armed populace deters criminals or prevents murders. Instead, higher ownership of guns in a state is linked to more firearm robberies, more firearm assaults and more homicide in general.
"We found no support for the hypothesis that owning more guns leads to a drop or a reduction in violent crime," said study researcher Michael Monuteaux, an epidemiologist and professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. "Instead, we found the opposite."
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/guns-dont-deter-crime-study-finds/ar-AAcDdis
Crime
Violence
Gun Control
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 140
1
1
0
I think that it’s a worthwhile consideration to think about how the arms buildup mentality may affect this situation. If the populace in general has an increase in legal firearm owners, and the tools necessary to commit a crime require you to be able to match firepower as a thief, you most likely are going to go ahead and acquire firearm yourself. It’s just like if the only access in your home for thief is through your second-floor window they do not give up robbing you and find Jesus, they go get a ladder. Or as I brought up in another example they may go ahead and just shoot first, one of the tendencies with non-law-abiding firearm owners is they are not usually the instigator which gives them the drop, and they have had the opportunity to consider the situation before it occurs, which may allow them to be more willing to pull the trigger than the gun owner.
It is good that they are doing these studies because it is important to note that a single study does not prove anything, ever, in any circumstance. But as a body of evidence begins to present causation is easier to determine, and one day we might see meta-analysis on this that does provide us answers on the best way to protect ourselves.
As for Gov. Huckabee I would say our views on Christianity must differ, and this does not appear to be from my understanding the teachings of Jesus Christ. But as with any crime if we went ahead and had a uniformed police officer escort every single person everywhere they go there would be no crime, if the country was completely populated with off-duty police officers again we would have no crime, and again if there was that mythical good guy with the gun who after the initial shock of the perpetrator starting to shoot was able to draw his weapon and take action without drawing fire from the individual who started the event then we would not have had the tragedy. It may just be that the event happened inside of a church, but I have trouble with advocating for people going to church armed, simply from my own personal belief that the fact that I would carry a weapon with have to do with my inability to place all of my trust in God, and it is definitely an interpretation have to decide on my own about religion is that I don’t necessarily think that God finds my life more valuable than the shooter’s life. I have faith that if I die I will have eternal life, what if I’m robbing that shooter of his opportunity to have redemption.
It is good that they are doing these studies because it is important to note that a single study does not prove anything, ever, in any circumstance. But as a body of evidence begins to present causation is easier to determine, and one day we might see meta-analysis on this that does provide us answers on the best way to protect ourselves.
As for Gov. Huckabee I would say our views on Christianity must differ, and this does not appear to be from my understanding the teachings of Jesus Christ. But as with any crime if we went ahead and had a uniformed police officer escort every single person everywhere they go there would be no crime, if the country was completely populated with off-duty police officers again we would have no crime, and again if there was that mythical good guy with the gun who after the initial shock of the perpetrator starting to shoot was able to draw his weapon and take action without drawing fire from the individual who started the event then we would not have had the tragedy. It may just be that the event happened inside of a church, but I have trouble with advocating for people going to church armed, simply from my own personal belief that the fact that I would carry a weapon with have to do with my inability to place all of my trust in God, and it is definitely an interpretation have to decide on my own about religion is that I don’t necessarily think that God finds my life more valuable than the shooter’s life. I have faith that if I die I will have eternal life, what if I’m robbing that shooter of his opportunity to have redemption.
(1)
(0)
Cpl Chris Rice
SGT Avelardo Valles - You don't really make point that works with my initial response. I have heard your argument a million times, mostly through bumper stickers and internet memes. I reread my entire post and I do not see where I suggested that the second amendment was incorrect. I said that people's perceptions of the minds of criminals is incorrect. I swear people run down these boards look for the dissenting opinion (I did not immediately call the study BS) and take a prewritten response and post it, it is hard to check these things while I write, but I wonder if your opinion would have been better served a stand alone response rather than a comment.
I like your groundbreaking theory that law abiding citizens don't shoot cops (It is after all against the law to do so), so cops probabley do not worry about them.
I like your groundbreaking theory that law abiding citizens don't shoot cops (It is after all against the law to do so), so cops probabley do not worry about them.
(1)
(0)
0
0
0
Interesting that in the states (27 now!) where no permit is required to carry a firearm in public there has been no "blood in the streets" as predicted by all of the "gun control" crowd when the new laws were passed. It's almost like it was a lie, designed to CONTROL the populace...
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
The problem isn't guns. It's the justice system & politicans. You have an entire party that doesn't want to prosecute criminals just to get votes. Shoplifting, assaults on LEOs, drugs, etc. Media outlets pushing their own agendas vs just reporting what goes on, taking sides. Yes there have always been opinions, but if your are a reporter or new broadcaster you should be telling the news as it's seen & let the ppl decide. That's how our republic is suppose to work.
No matter whether you liked trump or not. He did something that no president candidate ever did. He told the truth that we all know, said yes he used it or done. But guess what so did they & they have had the power to change but never did but complain about it. He called out the pandering for votes by politicans. And again no matter whether you like him or not. No politican in American history has been persecuted as Trump has been by political rivals. I mean a fake intelligence docket was created by a foreign national paid for by a rival political party & used by that party to waste billions of dollars on trying to get him out cause they don't like him.
The problems is society doesn't take charge anymore. The access to guns overall hasn't changed in decades. But crime has. What changed? Politics involved in the home, social justice, government interference. Criminals don't care about hiring arrested anymore. It's a badge of honor now. They welcome it in some cases. I love my firearms. I add to them when I can. I train as often as possible. That's what should be bring pushed. Training self defense. Harsher punishments. Less privileges in jail.
No matter whether you liked trump or not. He did something that no president candidate ever did. He told the truth that we all know, said yes he used it or done. But guess what so did they & they have had the power to change but never did but complain about it. He called out the pandering for votes by politicans. And again no matter whether you like him or not. No politican in American history has been persecuted as Trump has been by political rivals. I mean a fake intelligence docket was created by a foreign national paid for by a rival political party & used by that party to waste billions of dollars on trying to get him out cause they don't like him.
The problems is society doesn't take charge anymore. The access to guns overall hasn't changed in decades. But crime has. What changed? Politics involved in the home, social justice, government interference. Criminals don't care about hiring arrested anymore. It's a badge of honor now. They welcome it in some cases. I love my firearms. I add to them when I can. I train as often as possible. That's what should be bring pushed. Training self defense. Harsher punishments. Less privileges in jail.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Gunny, my thoughts are based on what I have learned over the years, especially in college studying for my Social Science degree . . . The problem is not guns, it is the mental health of the our society and miss direction of many people in trying to find an answer. Guns do not kill. People kill. The ability for people to buy guns may be too easy. The problem is where do we draw the line as not to step on the rights of the majority to buy guns. When looking as the problem, it is too easy for lawmakers to address gun control. That is the wrong direction. We need people control. We need two things to happen. Make the punishment fit the crime. Murder should have a mandatory death sentence. We have a system that is too liberal and allows people in excess of 10 years to appeal. Take for example a school shooting where there is absolutely no doubt that a person committed the crime. No appeal. Go straight to the nearest prison that executes and get put to death. We have numerous killings each year where there is no doubt. No life in prison, just the death penalty. Leave "involuntary" and accidental death as it is. People who use a weapon in the commission of a crime automatically get the death penalty if anyone is hurt or killed. The other thing is where a known unstable person is given guns by someone else. In a school shooting not too long ago, the mother had purchased the guns for her son. Those people should get either the same punishment or very harsh punishments for their part in the deaths of others.
Guns by themselves have nothing to do with crime. The crime is caused by people. Address the problem with people not the guns.
By the way, half of all murders are committed by repeat offenders. Put the murder to death and half of the murders disappear.
Other crimes such as rape and pedeophilia are serial crimes. They are outrageous crimes against other people. Studies have shown that when these people are caught, they have committed their crime over and over. Rarely is a rapist or pedeophile caught the first time. When they are released, they will commit their crime again. Several studies showed that even if they are castrated (by any means), they will still commit the crime. It is a hate crime and all they really want to do is to hurt someone. These people need to face a death penalty to stop the cycle. Forget if it will deter crime, focus on stopping the cycle of that single criminal.
Guns by themselves have nothing to do with crime. The crime is caused by people. Address the problem with people not the guns.
By the way, half of all murders are committed by repeat offenders. Put the murder to death and half of the murders disappear.
Other crimes such as rape and pedeophilia are serial crimes. They are outrageous crimes against other people. Studies have shown that when these people are caught, they have committed their crime over and over. Rarely is a rapist or pedeophile caught the first time. When they are released, they will commit their crime again. Several studies showed that even if they are castrated (by any means), they will still commit the crime. It is a hate crime and all they really want to do is to hurt someone. These people need to face a death penalty to stop the cycle. Forget if it will deter crime, focus on stopping the cycle of that single criminal.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
0
0
0
While I tried to follow the link so I don't look like an idiot, it says the page is no longer available. Did the study rely heavily on FBI stats? Most studies arguing for the lowering of crime rates cite the FBI stats on crime.
Often, stats on "defensive use" includes showing that a potential victim is armed. Just showing that a firearm is in the waistband, concealed, can change the minds of people unprepared to possibly get shot. Sometimes, a weapon must be drawn, but isn't fired. That still counts as a defensive use of a firearm. Anti-2A individuals and/or studies usually leave those stats out.
The headline of the post suggests, like with posts you can find on Reddit or Quora, that merely saying "there's studies out there... Google them." You did provide a link, willing to back up the argument. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, I can't access the article to see for myself. I'm always willing listen to the other side of the argument. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I pass on some piece of knowledge to someone on the other side, even if I only change the point-of-view (hopefully for the better) a little.
Often, stats on "defensive use" includes showing that a potential victim is armed. Just showing that a firearm is in the waistband, concealed, can change the minds of people unprepared to possibly get shot. Sometimes, a weapon must be drawn, but isn't fired. That still counts as a defensive use of a firearm. Anti-2A individuals and/or studies usually leave those stats out.
The headline of the post suggests, like with posts you can find on Reddit or Quora, that merely saying "there's studies out there... Google them." You did provide a link, willing to back up the argument. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, I can't access the article to see for myself. I'm always willing listen to the other side of the argument. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I pass on some piece of knowledge to someone on the other side, even if I only change the point-of-view (hopefully for the better) a little.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
Kennesaw, Georgia seems to prove the case in total... that city has mandatory gun ownership for each home.... published data follows:
Crime statistics
In 2001, violent crime rates were about 60% below national and state rates. Property crime rates were from 46–56% below national and state rates. From 1999 to 2011, Kennesaw crime statistics reported that both property and violent crimes had decreased, though from 2003 to 2008 the trend in both violent and property crime rates slightly increased.[22] The increase in crime rate overall is attributed to the population growth rate of 37.41%. The population growth rate is much higher than the state average rate of 18.34% and is much higher than the national average rate of 9.71%.[23]
Crime statistics
In 2001, violent crime rates were about 60% below national and state rates. Property crime rates were from 46–56% below national and state rates. From 1999 to 2011, Kennesaw crime statistics reported that both property and violent crimes had decreased, though from 2003 to 2008 the trend in both violent and property crime rates slightly increased.[22] The increase in crime rate overall is attributed to the population growth rate of 37.41%. The population growth rate is much higher than the state average rate of 18.34% and is much higher than the national average rate of 9.71%.[23]
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google