Posted on Apr 12, 2014
SSG Robert Burns
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Head shaving
So I was in basic training land today to help with some medical stuff. I couldn't help but noticed all the shaved heads all over the place and then the females with 20 ft of hair. In an era where we are screaming equal treatment; is this equal?I am also wondering why does a new private have to get his head shaved in the first place? Why not just a haircut within Army Standards?

Have the lines between male and female been erased?  Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.

ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.

*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
Edited >1 y ago
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LTC Angie Habina
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Females are still required to maintain a feminine like appearance and behavior...that being said, and having commanded in an IN BDE (I’m sure it’s not limited to combat arms BDEs), there are many females who are less than feminine. And “feminine” may be subjective. Our dearly loved 670-1 has recently changed to allow females to have a close cut / shaved style. If that makes you feel more part of the team, then have at it.
Males are also to keep a gentlemanly appearance and behavior. Well...again that’s someone debatable and subjective.
I agree getting your hair shaved in BCT is part of tradition for men, part of cutting the civilian out and rebuilding, and a whole lot more about hygiene. By the time it grows back (2-3 weeks someone said), you’re transitioning phases, you need the little break and rest. I’m sure it’s not restful, but it’s also not a 10-12 mile foot march (Are there still foot marches in BCT? It’s been a while since I’ve been through it.)
Females go through their own mandatory changes in basic training. As someone mentioned, yes, we have our mandatory 5 wellness exams before going to BCT and then annually to every 3 years depending on service branch and health. (Not to take away from turning your head a coughing.)
But forcing a female to shave her head bc it would be funny, as mentioned by another, is not a correct answer. The standards for culture apply even in 670-1....ie only black females can have corn rows and twists, it’s faddish for all other races. Beards are allowed for certain religions during certain periods, ie mourning.
This is not a new question, nor is the question of equal APFT scores. I don’t care who says what about getting and being equal...there are physical and psychological differences between males and females. Thinking otherwise is stupid. That doesn’t mean in behavior (from or towards) or social standing genders should be treated different classes in society or in the military. A better fight / question right now, given our equal rights and ability to serve in combat arms, is “why are females not required to sign up for selective service at 18?”
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LTC Angie Habina
LTC Angie Habina
>1 y
SFC David Pope, MBA
So you understand, while you were retired, the rest of us were rotating in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan and a whole lot of the Army you knew (nearly 20 years ago now) has moved on and changed.
While knowing history is important, unfortunately, you misunderstood the initial comment and your remarks are sexist.
Thank you and have a wonderful day.
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SFC David Pope, MBA
SFC David Pope, MBA
>1 y
LTC Angie Habina - I may be retired, but I am far from being removed from the military. I have a lot of family still serving, and I am still up to date on many things. I still have an AKO account, and have read many of the current NCO Leadership manuals. The only thing I misunderstood was your comment about female officers, but the answer to your initial question about the draft still to this day remains true. The answer may seem sexist, but that is how the law was written, and why. The law was just found to be unjust this February 2019. However it is still the current law on the books, but nobody has changed it since Vietnam. My DBA program is in Organizational Behavior and Leadership. Many things that are regarded as sexist today, were not so in the time the draft was created. Before Vietnam if you were an only son, you could not be drafted to protect he family name!
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
6 y
Congress hasn't seen fit to do their job and pass a law saying do it. They would rather sit around and try to find fault with every other part of the federal government.
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LTC Angie Habina
LTC Angie Habina
6 y
CPT William Jones Well as a citizen, you have right to craft the bill, garner signatures, and submit it to Congress. There’s a whole process and procedure.
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SrA David Heineken
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Any female that wants a combat mos should be assigned and live and train from the beginning with males. This includes boot camp.
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PO1 Jeff Brown
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this tradition has some good reasons for existing. Not the least of which is tearing you down as a civilian, so that you can be ‘built up’ as a sailor, soldier, or marine; unit uniformity, ease of cleanliness. Someone mentioned hazing... sure, I’m ok with hazing that doesn’t cause physical harm. After your hair grows back, you feel like you’ve earned the right. Shave both genders!
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CN Steelworker
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You conform to the military, the military doesn't conform to you. If you don't want your head shaved, tough.
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SSG David Stafne
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It is my understanding that the practice of shaved heads for new Recruits dates back to WWII when the our military had a huge number of Americans joining up. Many of those Recruits were not too keen on basic personal hygiene. With everyone living in crowded open bay barracks, shaving everyone’s head was a way to protect the health and welfare of the unit.

In today’s Army, shaved heads is more in line with the Basic Training concept where a Recruit is stripped of all their “Rights “ and we earn them back as “Privileges,” a concept I agree with. And, in fairness, this should apply to ALL Soldiers, not just the men!
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GySgt Michael Chapman
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I haven't looked at any other responses, so this may have already been said.
Seems to me, shaving the head has a couple of benefits...lice control being one...spotting unknown medical issues is a possibility, but more than anything it's about bringing everyone to the same level. Now, I can't speak for the Army, but in the Marine Corps we still have segregated boot camp. I believe it should stay this way, but that's a different discussion.
If you shave all the boy's heads in boot camp it creates a sense of equality in treatment and respect. They all lose their hair and all look a little silly.
Shaving women's heads seems a bit over the top. A woman, in my opinion, should be treated as such. This isn't a misogynistic point of view, but rather a more conservative one. In some circles, you shame a woman by shaving her head. I do think a shortened hair cut would be in order for all female recruits.
As a side note, suggesting that getting your head shaved in boot, or basic is hazing is just stupid. Put that garbage out of your mind.
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LCpl Douglas Landrith Jr
LCpl Douglas Landrith Jr
8 y
Well said Gunny! I 100% agree with what you said. People need to get over this "everything is fucking hazing bullshit". Semper Fi Gunny
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TSgt Melissa Post
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It was my understanding that shaving a guy's head was one way to break him down. There are some things that you just can't make equal. If guys get to keep their hair, girls should get to keep their makeup and nail polish. Sounds ridiculous and I think there could be bigger things to debate over but that is my take. It isn't an equality thing.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
Soldiers are paid to do a job that is different than any civilian job. If haircuts and things of that sort are regulated the rules should be the same. you don't join the 1.5% to look like movie stars models etc, you join to Serve. The more rules that are the same the less paper needed
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SSG Robert Burns
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SFC Processing Nco
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Simply put, TRADOC 350-6 appendix K-4d. All males will get "buzz cut" at reception.
Men and women are different and different accommodations need to be made within reason. Otherwise men will be getting bras and women will have to shave. And what of ear rings? Should men get to wear them?
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
There hair is no different than males it is the current customs that dictate styles and both males and females in the world wear their the same from long to short. Military regs should reflect that figure out what they want and issue an uniform reg for all military folks.This is one issue that needs no adjustment for male/female differences.
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SGT Team Leader
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It would be a greater equalizer, hmm? Do you want to serve enough to at least, shave your head? Vanity or service to country? My guess is that there would be far fewer females in the ranks. Personally, I looked ridiculous in BCGs and a bun anyway. May as well have just lopped it off. Honestly, would have saved being screamed at when the bun fell during PT.
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SSG Keven Lahde
SSG Keven Lahde
>1 y
SGT (Join to see) I can just picture you with no hair....NOT!! But I do understand what you are saying.
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A1C Aircrew Flight Equipment Apprentice
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Men should be in standards the way women can, or we could all do what the navy does and women get a super short hair cut so that we still have the "hazing" as the men do. I also feel women should not be allowed to dye their hair in basic. You know your date in advance, get back to natural and dye it again after you get through basic.
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SSG Infantryman
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It has been awhile since I was in basic training. The shaving of the head in more out of necessity, you don't have the luxury of getting a hair cut every week to keep a haircut in regs.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
7 y
Been a real log time since I was in basic (1964)but we got haircuts once a week. And they were pushing more then than now.And too a shaved head is faddish and not allowed under AR 670-1
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SSG Robin Rushlo
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I found that for Infantry basic and AIT shaved head worked very good. If the females want to get in the Combat arms then HEAD shaved otherwise within standards.
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Sgt Arthur Went
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2
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I believe in boot-camp both men and women should have their heads shaved for the reason of hygiene and easier maintenance.All the combat and field training a recruit goes through.
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LCpl Jason Clark
LCpl Jason Clark
11 y
There is also a psychological part to the shaving of recruits heads, uniforms and use of last name only. The similar they are with one another the better the unit cohesiveness, during the breakdown phase this helps with teamwork and loyality development.
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SSG Trevor S.
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As a right of passage it should be universal.
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SPC Infantryman
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Shave em' both bald. Builds character.
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SGT Shon D. Hill
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I'm shocked this topic has spun up such a massive response! I finally bucked up on hazing topic and disagreed due to it's connection with our mission, WAR COMBAT, along with Civilians on here too! Hazing discussion now, I'm a vet now, but it's huge!
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SGT Shon D. Hill
SGT Shon D. Hill
11 y
SSG Roberts this is not to offend you at all, but hear I go Ok! I posted a question 2 days ago about I WANT TO EXPATRIATE THIS COUNTRY TO LIVE IN BELIZE, COSTA RICA OR SOUTH AMERICA AND SOME REASONS WHY! ZERO RESPONSE? I don't want points, I'm asking for dialogue, advice, or thoughts on why I don't belong, can't afford to pay PAIN DR $250 month office visit and $350 Oxycodone prescription cuz VA KILLED PAIN MEDS ON US!
Hair length for Female Soldiers in Basic debate.....? Of course it's obvious I'm referring more to veteran/disabled vet type issues here and thought it would peak some serious interest but hair is on front-page news, lol! I'm sure a few posts will come through on my strange question :).
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
11 y
SGT Hill

I couldn't find your topic. Are you sure it posted?
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SGT Shon D. Hill
SGT Shon D. Hill
11 y
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/do-fellow-combat-veterans-want-to-expatriate-to-another-country
Awesome! I think I'm getting proficient with I-phone copy, paste, etc, LOL! Thanks for asking Vickie :) yea the link or copy from My discussion above. I know ppl post so many questions and such, I just noticed that the moderators or same folks always get big discussions, I only want a small one ;). I think it may appear like a "dis functional vet" type question, lol, but I'm hoping it can be something more than that. Would enjoy your thoughts as Active duty and you always keep it real! Shon (first name since off-duty, right?).
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PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
>1 y
SGT Shon D. Hill - Not sure what the original post was regarding becoming an expat or how it relates to boot camp haircuts. I have spent several years living in Central America, and have friends in Panama, Nicaragua, Mexico, Belize, and Costa Rica. My choice would be Costa Rica, they generally like Americans. Life in Central America is more expensive than most would think. We split our time these days between Costa Rica and the US my parents both have health problems and we need to be near to help my siblings with their care. Employment is another problem in Central America unless you start your own company so if you need income plan accordingly. US Dollars usually spend fine (it is one of the official currencies of Costa Rica). My Spanish is bad (Spanglish really) but it adds to the fun and many folks speak English and like to practice their English with native English speakers anyway. We have an apartment we keep in the Central Valley of Costa Rica the people are nice, violent crime is not common it is mostly petty theft and there is a lot of that never put your cell phone down out of reach or sight it will vanish. On the other side I dropped $100 in colonies (Costa Rica's money) at the grocery store and the person in line behind me chased me down to make sure I got it back. They have a love for their families I really enjoy seeing that, it is a Central American Latin country so patience is a requirement, silly rules ad regs are common.
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MSgt Tricare Oerations And Patient Administration Flight Chief
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Since the male standards are stricter, a shaved head will prevent them from having to go to the barber every other week, depending on the rate at which the recruit's hair grows. Females should at least be able to pin/arrange the hair into regulations, but if it cannot then it must be shortened.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
Why should there be two sets of rules on hair. Folks that signup now do so because they want to serve for awhile.
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SPC Christopher Smith
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2
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Hair has nothing to do with gender equality, there is more of a psychological effect in forcing women to shave their hair off, than on men. I do not have proof of this, but I'm sure I could if I cared to do the research. 
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CPT Marc Serrá
2
2
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There should be one standard for a Soldier...male or female...in all things, not just hair.

As to Basic, as a former BCT Cdr, I echo SFC Cardenas in that there simply isn't time to allow for the males getting whatever style they want.

As for female Soldiers in Basic...in my company they were losing half a day of training every three weeks to keep their hair done....sorry but that's a waste of my training time, a waste of their Soldier time, and a definite waste of Drill Sergeant time transporting and baby-sitting them at a hair salon.

After Basic, I don't really care, providing it doesn't look unprofessional and doesn't get in the way of job duties.
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SSG Ron Douglass
SSG Ron Douglass
11 y
Job transfer?
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CPT Marc Serrá
CPT Marc Serrá
11 y
New job. Previous company. Looking forward to it.
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SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
>1 y
My experience was the same as SSG Woods; once we unprocessed females did not get to go anywhere to have anything done to their hair.
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SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
>1 y
That was in processed. (Auto Spellcheck is the bane of my existence.)
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